Young Churchgoers Plot To Attack Chicago's Sears Tower (by BigBadJohnny)

Church-going young people is not exactly what these criminals were. They may have been mosque-going, but, to the average person reading your title, there is a big difference. Maybe if they had been "church-going," they might have had a different outlook on life.

Jeanne, I have to admit I am disturbed by your comment. For starters, one article says they studied the Bible. Chances are decent that they have been to church, as a good number of people that STUDY the Bible do so in a church. Regardless, Jesus himself said that he is with them when two or three gather in his name.

Second, I believe that many evangelical Christians would fit the above description, such as it is. The article says, "deeply religious people who studied the Bible and took classes in Islam." Many Christians consider themselves deeply religious, have studied the Bible, and taken classes in Islam. Their classes happen to focus on how to witness to those who believe in Islam. I cannot speak for what these boys classes entailed.

Third, and to the real heart of what concerns me about your comment, how much does it disturb you to your core to find out that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians? When they pray, the same God answers. Jack Miles, wrote a book called "God: A Biography". In that book he answers, "Allah in Arabic is a contraction for al-ilah, "the-God," and as such is cognate with Hebrew eloh, "god" (plural of abstraction, elohim, "deity"). Linguistic technicalities aside, what matters is that back in the seventh century, the first Muslims were using the same kind of word in Arabic that the Jews were using theologically in Hebrew and using it in the same way." Be warned. From what I have read of the Christian God, it is His place to judge whether these are his followers. Not yours.

Some of the most decent people on this planet that I have ever met have been Muslims. The differences I found I had with them were cultural, not religious. There was a time in college when one of my two best friends was a Muslim. Furthermore, SHE was a leader of the Muslim student organization. Yes, a woman leading. And the other Muslims rallied around her for support. This was Oklahoma, right exactly at the time of the Murrah bombings. Those first few days, everyone was pointing the finger at Muslims and saying how they certainly had done this. They threw bricks through the Muslim Student Center. The Muslims kept to their rooms, and some were physically threatened. Then we found out who really did it. Every single Muslim on that campus that I met (which was quite a few through my friend) breathed easier because they could now actually go out in public again to buy groceries or attend classes. But it shook me to find out how quickly people had turned on them.

God does not put good, decent, holy people exclusively in WASP neighborhoods. If you want to dislike these men, do so because of their actions. But hate them for the God they worship, and you make a mockery of Christianity instead.

But if you want to be like them, you'll have to emulate. -Ayria

Actually, I tend to agree with Jeanne Gibson, as to the issue "Churchgoers". I might claim to have genericized to draw in readers. Acually, Mosque would have been more correct.
As to the issue of "We all worship the same God (Christians and Muslims, that is),here too I have a perspective.
I have a good friend who is Muslim, and have gotten to know him and his family, his parents, his wife, his beautiful children, very well.
If asked, I would have to say that the Muslim view of the one God is stricter; more demanding, less forgiving, more stern, in countenance.
Muslims put great faith in the power and wrath of God, and it hurts when the Americans bomb and torment them, as tho' God were on the American side.
As you may know, I have been outspoken against the war.
Since the most incredibly brilliant IntricateGirl mentions the Oklahoma City Bombings, let me add this.
I had heard early references to the Florida group and that groups attempt to access explosives, similiar to the ones used in Oklahoma City.
apparently, later articles chose to downplay that attempted aquisition. Perhaps the aquisition of explosives idea came from the FBI, and in view of the youth of the boys, the media chose to make less mention of it.
In any case, later articles deleted the mention of the explosives, and so did I.
Thank you for your input, both of you, this blog site is just delightful!
BBJ

Hi Johnny. I refuse to believe you are big and bad -- well big maybe, but your usual treatment of your choice of topics makes it a bit hard to imagine that you are as "bad" as you would like us to think.

I'm sorry you found my comment disturbing. I hope you didn't lose any sleep over it. :) It was not my intention to set myself up as a judge of whether or not a particular persons are or are not going to Heaven. Their actions make their direction clear to all. And we are allowed to judge men's actions. In Scripture, we are told that we will know those who belong to God by their fruits. Or, as my elderly Mom would tell them, "If the shoe fits, wear it."

I beleive, as human beings, not just as Christians or non-Christians, we are compelled to judge the behavior of others. If every act is acceptible, lest someone think we are treading on their rights, there is really no reason for countries to have laws, for children to have parents, and for anyone to ever suffer a consequence for his actions. (Unless, we believe, as a certain university professor once told my class, "Every action has its own consequence.") That may be true, but, unfortunately, the consequences of most actions affect more people than just the perpetrator of the action.

What I really wanted to say in this comment, was that my original comment, above, was to express my feelings about having the name, "church," linked to individuals that were clearly not linked to any group I know of who calls themselves a church. Even the fanatical church groups in the United States usually limit their killing to their own members, ie. Jim Jones, and do not plot to kill thousands of individuals, completely unrelated to their cause, in their "religious" fervor.

Your blogs are great. Keep on writing.

No, not too much sleep at all. lol

It is not so much the judging itself that is the issue. It is the judging of entire groups by the actions of a few. You bring up Jim Jones. He called himself Christian. But do you want painted with that same brush? What about those in the KKK? I don't know you, but I'm willing to bet you want to put as much distance between your own beliefs and theirs as you can. I cannot speak for the group, but it is entirely possible that they went to church. And there are churches that spew that much hate. They may not fall within your definition of a church, but that's where I think it is God's job to decide. Otherwise it's just one denomination spewing hate towards another because one chooses to not dance, and the other chooses to not watch movies, and a third decides to not wear makeup. Petty things to divide the kingdom of God. Now, certainly, if they are doing something dangerous, report them to the authorities, because that would be a matter to be decided on earth. Render unto Ceasar, and all. SO, if I read wrong and you do not automatically write off any Muslims as being hateful, vengeful people, I apologize. That is truly the way it sounded. Because that is absolutely not the case. There are good Muslims and there are good Christians, and any other religion you can think of. But there are also lousy ones on each side. I choose to look at the good ones, because I don't have nearly enough energy for the awful people of the world.

You write, "the consequences of most actions affect more people than just the perpetrator of the action." This is most definitely true. But they also affect far fewer than a lot of people like to believe. For example, I find Tom Cruise to be a raving, maniacal, nut job. Certainly, he has a huge sphere of influence, and not just in Hollywood. But he can pretty much blather about anything and it doesn't really affect my life at all. Some people adore Oprah, and they would argue she has a MASSIVE sphere of influence. She has not affected my life one way or another. I choose not to watch her show, so I pretty much have no idea what is going on in the world of Oprah. Mostly, and this is an important part of the equation, because I don't give anyone that much power of what direction my life takes. Likewise, when I curse at the neighbor who lets their cats roam the streets, it has a very small sphere of influence. Meaning, there doesn't need to be an Act of Congress over it or a jihad declared.

And these are people with much more influence than I have. I guess what I'm saying is that even in "It's a Wonderful Life" when Jimmy Stewart found the horrible world without him in it, it wasn't that horrible, and it also didn't extend very far. It was simply one sad little town.

But if you want to be like them, you'll have to emulate. -Ayria

Maybe we should start a crusade to have all newspapers, radio, and TV broadcasts refer to the subjects of their new items as a "young man," a "young woman," a "child," an "adult male," or an "adult female," and to resist labeling them with any other title. Heh, heh. "An adult female ran over a dog. and when she got out of the car to check on the dog, the adult female was chased by a child, a young man, and a young woman yesterday afternoon. An adult male in the car with the adult female, jumped out of the car and used a baseball bat to defend the adult female. etc. etc. etc.

I guess life would get pretty boring with no titles at all, but I would like to see the local news stop reporting things like, "a black male robbed a bank today," or "Mr. Jones, a local high school English teacher, received a speeding ticket this afternoon " --- like being black had anything to do with the robbery, or being a teacher turned a driver into a speed demon. Have a great day, Johnny.

lol. Careful. By young, you might be implying that someone else is old. ;)

But if you want to be like them, you'll have to emulate. -Ayria

Good grief girls, my head is spinning!
BBJ!