for telling it like it is. I am acquainted with a family who split up with her husband to live with a gay partner and who took her 3 children with her. These normal, sweet little elementary school children have become rebellious, hateful, and promiscuous teens. Perhaps this would have happened anyway. At a very young age, the children were required to participate in a "wedding" between the two women. The real heartbreaker for me was when the teenage girl, at 13, asked her grandmother, "Gram, do you think any boy will ever want to go out with me, because of the way my mom is? Most of them look the other way when I walk down the hall, and the girls don't want to be friends because other kids will think they are gay." (The mom had been showing up at sports events with her hair spiked, arm and arm with her gay partner.) What loving, caring mother, could bring her children into this kind of situation?

... when I realized that humans do NOT have a monopoly on homosexual conduct. Its existence in other species is well documented, perhaps most accessibly in On Aggression by Konrad Lorenz, which is one of many places where the similarities and (sometimes minimal) differences between sexual and aggressive behaviors are explored.

Science does not yet understand the basis for homosexual conduct, and when it tries to investigate it, the studies are blocked or forced into obscurity or are seriously misinterpreted, sometimes by the investigators themselves. There are, we think, both "hardwired" and "learned" components to homosexual behavior in humans.

Are you fond of ancient Greek culture? You probably should be, it is the foundation for the principles of modern Democratic government. Its armies were also composed entirely of practicing homosexuals (actually, in most cases, more accurately "bisexuals") - the theory being that lovers would be the fiercest fighters in the close infantry combat that characterized war in those days (5th century BCE), as each would do his all to protect his partner. Nor were these soldiers the outcasts of society; rather, they were the pillars of society - after all, one could not be a hoplite unless you could pay for your own arms, which meant that you were of the wealthy, property-owning class.

Nor, may I say, is the principle of having kids to further one's own agenda a principle exclusive to gay couples. For every case of turmoil due to a gay couple's mismanagement of kids, I can point to dozens of cases of mismanagement by heterosexual couples. Gay, straight, or Martian, NO ONE should have kids if they have ANY agenda other than the love of children and a sincere desire to bring those children up to do as well in life as their talents permit.

I happen to be "straight", have no interest in being otherwise and will tell you so in no uncertain terms if approached. But there are several gay/lesbian couples with children in the neighborhood - after all, this is Berkeley. Those couples seem to be having no greater difficulties with their kids than any of the heterosexual couples that I encounter here. Perhaps fewer, because they've had to work harder to achieve family status, have had to do the kind of evaluation that ALL couples should do before undertaking this most difficult and dangerous of tasks. Nor are these couples on the "parade ground" as in this documentary. They're just families, they're just kids. Like any others.

So when I hear,

"Gram, do you think any boy will ever want to go out with me, because of the way my mom is? Most of them look the other way when I walk down the hall, and the girls don't want to be friends because other kids will think they are gay."

I ask, is this the fault of the gay couple or of the "Christian" intolerance that surrounds them?

I highly recommend seeing the movie Thank you for Smoking...very funny and good. One of the points made in the movie is that a person with a good argument or a person who knows how to argue is never wrong...This is true...I have been wrong but able to out argue someone in such a way to make him/her look wrong that I appear right...not good!!! The point is animals are not gay!!! Research has proven that a dog humps a human’s leg...that doesn't make bestiality acceptable. There have been studies done trying to prove homosexuality in animals, and nothing is conclusive. A dog humps a person’s leg just like it may hump the same sex of its kind…what is the point?!!! That argument is ridiculous and holds no water…A homosexual may well be the best parent in the world…doesn’t matter!!! It is not natural…You can find the greatest homosexual in the world and he/she is the greatest parent in the world, and it will not matter because that is not natural and therefore the child will still suffer an unnatural childhood, and will suffer from his/her peers. Obviously any parent…heterosexual or not…if they are using kids as an agenda is wrong…but that has nothing to do with the point… there are always these side issues that people try and use to get around the point…Gay soldiers…very funny!!! That is not why they were gay (in response to a previous comment). It had nothing to do with protecting each other…wow…funny. It had to do with men being stranded at times, like in prison, with nothing else…so they started banging each other, also Greeks were known for their sexual experimentation…Especially amongst the upper class which had money to protect them, and allow themselves the elaborate lifestyle of sexual experimentation…. Once again that has nothing to do with the blog I wrote…. More could be said, but this should be sufficient for now….

for the children of homosexual relationships. The majority of children have a mother and a father - a female and male - in their family (even though for some the mother and father are not together). I guess that it "normal". I feel that some children of different relationships can end up being a little confused, and being teased by their peers (common occurence for children who are different.)

to adopt dogs instead because the kids will be extremely confused. I do NOT agree that gay couples can be considered "mother" and "father" and .. for obvious reasons. I am not saying that they are irresponsible, in fact, some gays are great ! But..... my "small conservative" mind cannot SEE how two people of the same sex can be BOTH mama and papa.

In reading these posts I see something very worrying. Gay people are being treated en bloc. Like what I heard when I was young and No Irish Need Apply signs were still in a few shop windows in Boston: All Chinese look alike.

On Easter Sunday, of all days(!), we are forgetting, it seems, that we are dealing with individuals, with individual strengths and weaknesses. Which actually might include parenting skills, shock horror. Yes, there are bad actors. There were bad actors among black people in these United States too, back when blacks were slaves, and those were very conveniently used to help denigrate a whole class of people and keep them in slavery. That should certainly give us cause to see the wisdom of "judge not, lest ye be judged."

I will concede one point. Homosexuality in animals is generally self-correcting. Obviously. No kids. Although bisexuality can in some cases be adaptive (the lady and her offspring get two protectors for the price of one). Non-human animals don't have technology to pass on the genes of homosexually-inclined individuals, IF such genes exist. Remember, we don't understand very well the genetic basis of HETEROSEXUALITY - it's NOT just X and Y chromosomes. Remember Nemo the clownfish, in the movie? He grows up to be a she. Unless he proves to be a wimp, in which case he stays a "he". I guess I'll have to blog about this some day.

Anyway, If (and that's a BIG IF) there is a significant genetic component to homosexuality, then artificial insemination, egg and sperm banks, and the other science tricks used to grant children to gay/lesbian couples, the flow of those genes into the population is no longer blocked. Thus, a behavior that is non-adaptive in the long run is promoted, by both nature and nurture. Which is fine in times of plenty, but can be devastating in times of plague or famine.

But to be honest, that kind of thing is the least of my worries right now. See Hitler, in another comment above.

as BOTH women.... I amsure IF that were the case, the Catholic schools I was enrolled in would kick me out (really). I would also have no friends and my neighbors would probably NOT even want to LOOK at me... so I would be that kid with what some people call "abnormal parents". But IF they were GOOD parents, that would be better than some drunk guy as a father... still, frankly, people would prolly NOT treat me right if i were a kid of same sex parents.... thhinkin...

This issue is all to familiar to me. I don't have anything against gay people but i have to agree that it is not a good environment for a child to be raised in.
My girlfriend (Lin) decided she was gay in 1999. At the time her daughter was 5 years old. So Lin moves her girlfriend into her home and decides to "play house" with her. The relationship confused the hell out of her daughter. By 2003 her daughter, now 9 decided SHE was gay too. She had a terrible time in school and was teased endlessly for Lins actions. The children were so mean that Lin had to pull the girl out of school completely. They decided to go for "alternative education". It is a stupid program.
Anyway, in 2005, the 12 year old runs away from home, uses tons of drugs and is miserable.
And just as Jeanne mentioned, Lin has totally changed her appearance too. She dresses very manly.

Why should a child have to suffer through all of "moms" decisions? As parents we are supposed to make decisions that are RIGHT for our children, even if it is always what's "fun" for us. You know how many nights I wish I could go out? Instead I stay home and read my son books and play games w/him. That's what REAL parents do. Sacrafice.

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I was trying to imagine If my parents were BOTH women. I can't! Now that's a sad story because I still think that the "role model" is important and the kids should have a better deal in life than being the "copy" of their "parents". As I also said, I do not hate gay people (my favorit sit com is Will and Grace btw), but this is beyond me...

Wow... Im kinda surprised I thought people here would be more open to gay people adopting or having children. Don't you think it's really just our cultures fault for it having a bad affect on children? I don't think there's any harm in it except that yes, people will make fun of them. so CHANGE THAT instead.

For every messed up kid that was raised by gay parents there are just as many that were raised by straight parents - proportionately I would think. I haven't done the research on this but I'd like anyone who HAS done the research to tell us about it. My bet would be that there hasn't been enough research to prove anyone right or wrong. I happen to know a few "kids" raised my gay parents who have turned out pretty good. Does that make me right? Does that mean that they all are? Of course not? It just means that IN MY experience, gay parenting is fine. Or maybe it is because I live in Canada and most people here are more liberal. Other countries are more conservative which of course is going to make things more difficult for those who don't have a "normal life".
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I guess I had an "unnatural" childhood growing. I grew up in a household with a single parent. Not only did I not have a "daddy", but my "mommy" couldn't walk. Sure these facts made my life a little more difficult but I turned out pretty good.

My point is what makes a parenting situation "normal". Who says it has to be a man and a woman. The only difference between gay parents and heterosexual parents is the combination of male and female. Using the logic that some of the people here are using then it is "unnatural" for interracial couples to have children. This would be "unnatural" because undoubtedly other children will ask "why is his daddy black/white?" Thus making the child's life more difficult.

Hopefully people understand why this kind of logic doesn't really hold water. Maybe we should be talking about the kids who asking the difficult questions. Isn't it a parent's job teach their children to be accepting of all others no matter what?

Gay parents do not confirm that a child will become rebelious. Good or bad parenting decides this. I have taken care of a lot of kids and I've had some really bad kids who come from straight parents and I've had good kids who come from gay parents. It also goes both ways. The sexuality of the parents doesn't make a difference in how a child is raised. However the parenting skills will.

I gotta agree with O'C and weezy on this one.

I know plenty of kids that have "normal" familes that turned out messed up. And I know a few gay couples that seem to be doing well with it.

Too me, it seems that if a parent loves their children and take the time to raise them properly, gay or not the child will grow up to make their own decisions.

In Reality's specific case, i could see how that could screw up a 5 year old kid because it's at a crucial time in a child's life when he/she is starting to make formations of who they are. Maybe her mom(s) didn't take the time to tell her that this is just one way of life and that just because they do it, doens't mean she has too.

I think saying that gay couples can't raise kids is just to broad of a blanket statement and unfair.

It's not that gay couples SHOULDN'T raise kids, but when is it appropriate to do this? Is there a "good" time in a childs life for a mather/father to turn gay? I don't think it matters if the child is 5, 9 or 15. I think it's still going to be destructive.
It may be a different case if the parents were gay to begin with (before child was born), but in many of todays cases it's not like that.

Honestly, if I decided to live a gay lifestyle today I would keep it from my child. I want him to be raised in an environment where he doesn't have to question his surroundings. Just like if I was to get a divorce. I would still make things work with my husband because that's what is right for my son. I still think that the best interest of the child must come before the personal interests of the parent.
My friend Tubby's parents are swingers. They go to clubs and meet other people and "swap" partners for a few hours. Is this wrong? No. That's their marriage, not mine. But it had a huge long-lasting impact on Tubby's life. This is what helped shape his feelings toward the opposite sex, sex in general and relationships.
Everything parents do is seen by their children. We need to act in a manner that we want our children to act in.

No, I don't think that having gay parents means a child will be a rebel. I was just speaking from my own experiences and the destruction I witnessed over many years due to a mothers decision.

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There are many, many, many things that even a child in a "perfect" family will be teased about or will find awkward. I know many children who have the love of only one parent, and some that are related to me that have one parent who is a drug addict who doesn't give a damn about them. You think those kids wouldn't be blessed to have two loving parents, whether they are two moms, two dads, or whatever?
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