This is where what we say to children comes back to bite us. My daughter uses 'just' a lot and I realise that I use it when I'm trying to explain why I can't do what she wants straight away. It's no wonder she's using it on me now. Our children are smart - and although we hate being manipulated, they may have learned it from us. Now that's a scary thought!

Sharon's Writing Lab
Blog at WritingUp

Hmmmm...does somebody need a spanking? I'M KIDDING! I wrote a blog about spankings and almost got stoned and hung for it.

If you'd like to throw a rock at me too, here's the link:
http://bloggerparty.com/parents_please_spank_your_kids

"I know he’s being manipulative. I have no real problem with that (except for that it makes my life difficult). Being manipulative is a part of being human – we all try to manipulate each other at least some of the time. But how much is too much? What do you think?"

I'm still trying to decide whether I agree with the statement that being manipulative is part of being human or not. Let me put that aside and deal with two bigger issues.

1) SHOULD it be human or should we try to rise above it? For example, I could argue that biting is part of being human. Kids do it a lot to other kids, and on an even simpler level, it is part of an action that keeps us alive (chewing and eating). But that doesn't mean I won't or SHOULDN'T be arrested if I bite my neighbor when their leaves blow into my yard. See what I mean? There are hundreds of examples of primitive urges that we shouldn't necessarily give into. Being manipulative is one.

2) No manipulation should be acceptable from a child. I used to work in a group home for troubled teens. I literally worked with hundreds of these teens, and one of the biggest problems I saw was manipulation. NONE was tolerated. You know why? Because that's what they had pulled before they went there. That is a big reason they were sent there. Not so much because they are manipulative, but because the parents view it as ok or normal. And I can say without any reservation that the most difficult kids were also the most manipulative ones. Think about it. You tell little Johnnie that he cannot have McDonald's for supper. It gets to be supper time and he gets up, grabs his plate, and throws it in the trash. Then he springs it on you that he wants his hamburger. You remind him that you said he can't have McDonalds, and he reminds you that you didn't say he couldn't have Burger King. You now have two options. You throw your hands up, say, "Well, you got me there." and take him, OR you look at him and say, "Child, have you lost your MIND?!?!?!" Sure this is an extreme example, but I've actually witnessed worse. If you manipulate, you send the message that it is acceptable. If you allow him to manipulate, you send the message that it is acceptable. Sooooo, get rid of the manipulation completely.

So when you say that it feels like he's testing you, guess what? He is. Of you cave on two minutes, he knows you will cave on 3 and 4 and even 15 or 30. If I were in your situation (which I have been), when he is told to come out of a room and he does not, excuses are meaningless. Thank goodness my children were blessed with legs that work. They can use them to come over to me and ask, "Mommy, could I get my ball out of that room?" My answer will almost always be yes, and when it isn't, I will usually get it for them. But if it was one of my teens on card, they would have broken several rules right there. Manipulation, not following instructions, making excuses... It's all just a lot easier when they know the rules and follow them.

You are right. I agree totally with both of your examples. It is a deeper issue. Even though my son is young I feel the same way. He'll scream if I am holding my cell phone and he wants it. So to shut him up I give it to him. Or he'll be mad that I ended his bath after 20 minutes. It's so tempting just to stick him back in the tub. I know I need to stand my ground but it really IS hard. We, as parents MUST say "no" and mean it. If "no" means "yes, if you bug me enough" now then what will it be like when our kids are teenagers?

Yeah, it really is hard. No doubt about it. And those are the overt ways they go about it. Factor in all the more subtle ways. Does the child get a toy for behaving in the store? Shouldn't they be behaving anyway? It sounds so harsh. I mean, what if you just want to buy them a toy?!? I'm not saying don't, but I am saying it will be easier if you don't tie the two activities to each other. If they are very good, you have extra money, and you wanted to buy them something, go for it. Usually they will be curious about why you did it and ask you about it. Instead of telling them, "You were very good and I wanted to" or "Because I love you" tell them, "Because you don't have nearly enough toys." If you tell them it is because they were good, they will be very good the next time, but be disappointed when they don't get one. If you tell them it's because you love them, when you don't buy them a toy, they might wonder if you love them anymore. If you tell them they don't have enough toys, they will probably think it's a joke, and if they question you further, you can always tell them that they have enough toys now. lol

I realize a lot of it sounds harsh. A lot of it feels harsh too. Why can't he play in the bathtub longer? Usually there isn't a reason. You don't necessarily want to give in while he's fighting you on it though. Just tell him before he gets in the tub, "Tonight will be a short bath, and I don't want a fuss about it." That's that. But make sure he gets a longer bath some nights too.