Oh god, I can't even begin to discuss how relevant this is to my life. I mean relevant to the point of feeling sick in the pit of my stomach.

I'll quit now, because I'm too bitter about the BS they consider an actual accomplishment. Even still, I have no intention of suing them. Especially not when flipping them off is so cathartic.

the BS they consider an actual accomplishment.

Yeah, I've played that game. Amazing what you can trump up into a promotion when you're in a situation where hitting the pot on consecutive trips to the john is a real achievement.

"What the [deleted] is happening to us, dude?!?"

For my son, the pinnacle of a good day is if he can sit still, keep his hands to himself, and shut up. And to be sure, these are all things he needs to learn. He comes home and I ask him what he did. "Timed tests." Every day, that's the answer. The only problem is that he hasn't actually learned anything he's being tested on. He learned things last year and he learned things at home, and he even progressed beyond the first grade level and found himself taking third grade level timed tests, but he never learned the third grade level stuff in class... So when my husband calls to complain about the lack of education, the principal switches the conversation to him not being able to keep his hands to himself.

A) What does the lack of teaching have to do with poking? Or are you just trying to deflect the question because you don't have a good answer?
B) Did the poking involve anyone losing an eye, or was he just being your TYPICAL annoying 7 year old boy?
C) If his mind if busy trying to figure out the answer to an algebra problem, he doesn't have time to think about poking. He's too busy trying to come up with the correct answer. Ever think of that???

I'm not going to put him on Ritalin, much to their dismay I'm sure. But every day, it's getting harder and harder to keep from telling him to PRETEND he's on Ritalin so they'll shut the hell up. Instead, I choke out a "don't talk or touch anyone, because your teacher will make you sit in the back of the room (where she can properly ignore you)."

And I'll totally put my money where my mouth is on this one. I consistenly find myself wanting to teach him from home, even though that means a move to a "less socially developed" state. Otherwise, I still have to deal with them. And for the detractors, I am already the only one teaching him, and there's not a lot of room for socialization when you're moved to the back of the class every day.

But I do realize- your mileage may vary.

There are so many factors that can cause a child to behave "so", I would make no comment on any individual situation without a thorough personal knowledge of it - at which point "patient/subject confidentiality" would likely kick in so I wouldn't be saying anything even then.

Let's just say I've seen the whole range.

And the common denomiator to positive outcomes is individual attention, combined with understanding and trust among those who are giving the attention.

Which is impossible when the accountants, lawyers, and special interests are running the show. When everybody's the enemy, and they're all gathered at the one shrinking water hole.

Here's one personal measure of the effect of that shrinking water hole. I taught undergraduate biology at a university. Circumstances were such that I got few students that I would have chosen to unleash on any field, much less my own. But there were many who were struggling to get a passing grade at anything. It was my custom to ask the students at the beginning of my second-year majors class what they were working towards. I marked what the response of the "D" students would be beforehand, and I was seldom disappointed.

"Teacher!!"

I quit that job.

And I'm glad to have heard it from someone on the other end of the spectrum. There's no time for personal attention at school when you have twenty something kids who are ALL poking each other and telling on the others, and you just want to make it through your lesson plan. And it seems as though there's no time for personal attention at home between the cleaning and fixing supper and eating and keeping kids from poking each other and telling on each other... And then everyone looks up and the kid is four inches taller and another grade level along, and nobody has learned ANYTHING. Myself included.

Now if you'll excuse me, my daughter and I are doing our ABC's and T, U, and V keep disappearing. Individual attention with the hope it's making some kind of difference.

Pardon my bluntness but it has to be said. If the States weren't so 'sue-happy' a lot of this wouldn't be happening. Teachers wouldn't feel the need to protect their behind (fanny?) by banning seemingly harmless kiddy games in fear of a lawsuit. They wouldn't analyse every move they make in fear of some smart ass kid crying abuse and landing them in jail. And a sh*t load more learning would actually get done! Boys will be boys and accidents will happen. Girls too, by the way, lest I trigger a 'sexist' accusation!

And I dare not touch on the 'guns in school' subject either.

Educational institutions are actually scared to teach for fear of landing themselves in court! Discipline is virtually non-existent for the same reason, except for the 'covering my back' banning of 'rough play' games like tag, which I loved as a kid by the way.

God, I dread to think what would happen now if I had the same incident as one I had back in school. I was chasing some boy and skidded, sliding down a set of concrete steps on my shins. Needless to say they were quite shredded. But that's kids play for you. That's what kids do! That's what they're supposed to do! Muck about and have a laugh! Now they can't even do that!

It seems to me that things go from one extreme to another. What we've got now is an educational institute that bans having fun yet doesn't teach! So what the hell's the point in kids even going to school?! They'd learn a helluva lot more at home!

I'm gonna be picking my kid's school very carefully. If it comes to it, if I'm left with little alternative, I'll teach her at home. At least that way she can have fun, learn and not risk getting shot by some trigger happy kid.

Sigh.

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British schools are more old fashioned in that respect, teachers are given a lot more respect, don't get me wrong, if a teacher hit a kid, they wouldm get fired, take my school, for example, our headteacher is an ex-boxer, and he will shout his head of at any kid who misbehaves and all the parents love him.

And we still play full contact sport from age 11...

missm and callum -

I experienced the British system in New Zealand. one of the most depressing aspects of that experience was watching the respect for teachers and elders collapse under the twin pressures of economic downturn and American crap television. that said, I reckon the system, and the ethic underpinning it, renders it far superior to the current American system. New Zealand, after all, was for years considered an international leader in primary education. And corporal punishment was still in place (though in secondary, not primary, ed.)

I still think the Vietnam era has had a lot to do with the current American school situation. My generation trashed generations of classical education in the quest for "relevancy" (which meant, anything that my peers felt like doing - and since there were so blessed many of them, they proved the truth of Napoleon's old saying, "God is on the side of the heaviest batallions").

The national divisiveness left over from the Vietnam experience, and the distrust of both sides for the American educational system, is with us now - and that's not just my opinion, I heard it expressed during a national public radio news program just this morning.

We will, as a nation, have to get it together soon. Because only strong national will has any chance of generating both the investment (that means TAXES, folks, especially you billionaires that aren't reading this) and the rah-rah support that will put our schools on the upward track. Otherwise, our children will all be speaking Chinese.

disturbing, disgusting.....i could go on and on....it honestly frightens me when i think about putting my son and his sister-to-be in schools in this country. and since my husband and i are not in the privileged upper echelon of society, our choice of schools is pathetic at best. what i wouldnt give to move to europe and have my children educated there. i have many cousins and friends who have grown up in hungary, germany, and italy and have had wonderful , rich, educations. their children are now enjoying this privilege as well.....*sigh* and they have all been allowed to be children and play as such. no more chasing games? what is that? and is that type of ban going to ameliorate anything? no. just another way to distract us from how truly pathetic our school system is? probably.

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... if I were king of the world (HA!), I would ban those private schools in a millisecond. Force the idea that schools are the common property of society, society's principal investment, succeeding only if all of society recognizes that and joins the team in a positive way.

Mind you, if we wish the wealthy to stop dissing us, it puts a responsibility on us to stop categorically dissing them ... Respect works in all directions. Lest we forget ...