My position
This has been in my mind the last few weeks. And I'll be damned if I have figured out how to say it yet.
I'm sitting here watching a documentary on Ralph Nader. Did you know that people sent him driveshafts from their cars, and lawnmowers in a box, because they were convinced that he could help them. Ponder that for a minute. Picture the person in your mind. Maybe it's your next door neighbor. A woman, mid-40's, brown hair, green eyes, lower middle class... She manages to perform pretty much any regular tax. And yet, she's decided that Ralph Nader is her savior. He's going to fix the stuff that nobody else can. Ralph Nader was this woman's superhero.
How do you think that worked out for her? Do you think Ralph Nader sat down and fixed her driveshaft with his super powers? Those who like him will say that of course he did, those who blame 2000's election on him will issue some snarky comment that says something along the lines of, "Of course he won't, he'll break it worse, and mess up everyone else's in the process!" And those who are completely indifferent will wonder why in the world I seem so obsessed with Ralph Nader. So let me explain why.
Ralph Nader was supposed to be the great American savior, just like Ross Perot, just like fill in the blank. And just like Barack Obama.
No, I'm not switching sides, although lately, the fanboys and fangirls are making me want to. Seriously people, you're getting wet over a politician??? If you want to talk politics, fine. Let's talk.
The next President is going to inherit a really lousy state of affairs. We've got how many wars currently going? Plus we're busy threatening Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, and Venezuela. Gas prices are killer, and so are food prices, and you can take your pick of shit solutions. Either grow corn which won't be used to make food cheaper, but will supposedly make gas cheaper- in 3-5 years, OR you can drill the hell out of the little remaining oil, all the while screwing up the states that have some of the best economies because of tourism.
Look, it's very simple. I know who I support for President. I recently challenged Djbtol to name who he's supporting and WHY. But I challenge the Obama supporters with the same thing. Do you really support him, or are you just looking for someone to fix your fucking driveshaft? See, the thing with messiahs is that they tend to get bumped off before they're any use to anyone. And I don't mean that in a necessarily literal sense. Any SINGLE one of the issues facing the next President could be enough to sink him politically. Add them all together, and the chances are very high that anyone you elect will leave office with a worse approval rating than Bush, and that they'll get there in four years.
Now, that's not a reason to just toss the dice and hope. I mean, damn! Make an effort! But that's the thing. I cannot bring myself to support a candidate who's against personal attacks by personal attacking those who disagree with me. I cannot challenge people to come up with reasons why they support McCain if I can't provide well thought out reasons why I support Obama. And I can't shut out all viewpoints when my candidate is the kind of guy to examine something from all angles.
I suppose what I'm saying is I hope everyone is voting for a President, and not a mechanic. ;)
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Well hell IG
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
Obama is EDUCATED and as far as the Presidency goes that should stand for something!! Look at Bush and his record as far as his own education goes...he was at the bottom of his class as was McCain. I know that I want someone who understands implicitly what our neighbors are saying because he is educated enough to catch the nuances etc. I also want someone who isn't so old that we have to pray that whomever he picks as a running mate wont be a total disaster simply because he was picked by an uneducated idiot. I do pay attention to who says what and in todays paper do you know that Mr and Mrs. McCain can't seem to remember just how many houses they own? I mean the fact that Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's was not too well known until after he left the Casa Blanca, so is McCain already there? How can he not remember how many houses he owns? I also do not care for Cindy McCain as she has lied about stupid things like how many siblings she has...Why? I don't trust the McCains at all...not even to do my laundry...let alone fix the economy or any foreign policy. Have you read PWs post? She provides a great link to all sorts of info...and when a fellow that spent time (more time than McCain) did as a POW and knows McCain very well, says that he thinks McCain is a bad choice, I agree.
Sassys,
Okay, so maybe you're not voting for a mechanic, but it sounds like you're voting for a professor. So he's educated. That's a good start, but it's only a start. Which particular policies drew you in?
In your response, I didn't read a lot of support for Obama. I read a lot of backlash against McCain. And again, that's a good start. You know who you're not voting for. But has nothing to do with why you're voting for Obama. Is it simply because Obama's the only other viable choice?
How swayed are you by Djbtol's attacks on Obama? Does it make you want to switch sides? No?? Then why should attacks on McCain will be perceived any differently?
So IG what is your point??
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
I have stated why I like Obama on many of my own blogs...not only do I agree with his policies but I do believe he will do the right thing ...what thing? He says he will put the Constitution back to rights and I like the fact that he wants to end this illegal war, his stand on MY rights as a woman and how he views Roe vs Wade...I DO know why I vote for someone and I ALSO know why I attack McCain because unlike Obama I don't feel the need to rise above the DJBTOLS of this world. It's just as important to know why I dislike the McCains as it is to know why I like Obama...and IF Obama was a teacher I would vote him in all the quicker. Can I go home now? LOL.
What's my point?
I thought it was exceptionally clear. I am so turned off of all the negative crap on both sides. It is just as draining to listen to people attack McCain as it is Obama. Want to know where I've been? Doing anything besides drooling over things that McCain or his wife might have done 20 years ago. Trying to accomplish things rather than picking fights with an internet enemy!
But yeah. You're free to go home anytime. I certainly have nothing for you here. But I've gotta wonder why you felt compelled to respond to a post that obviously asks people to tone down the rhetoric.
Facts are not rhetoric IG
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
for starters and why should we "tone it down"? Glad you don't drool though, you busy bee. When people come on this site and flat out lie about a candidate they deserve whatever they get as a response. And since when does anyone have to be accountable for their religious/political views here? I may be abrupt and down right mean at times but I don't care for liars and the gossip here should be kept in check...so while you don't care to partake in the "rhetoric" those of us that are passionate will argue because obviously it matters to us.
There is an incredibly big
There is an incredibly big divide between correcting lies and going on the attack. There is a big divide between being passionate (and I've proudly claimed that label my entire life), and being obsessed.
And it is my opinion that any time anyone opens their mouth and states any position, they'd damn well better be accountable for it. You're so busy crucifying McCain and the Republicans and Djbotl, and anyone else who disagrees with you in the slightest that somehow you began to think you're exempt from being questioned. Guess what. You're not. That's life. I'm sure taking enough shit for this viewpoint, but I have no intention of backing down from it.
I asked for reason. Apparently there's little left.
So when someones blog is nothing but
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
very nasty lies it's ok to give them a pass? I too believe in accountability...mine, yours and anyone else that chooses to be vehement in their beliefs...it's never a bad question to ask "why?" To sit back and allow someone to lie about something and not "attack" is almost like accepting the lies and tacitly agreeing by being quiet. When certain bloggers persist in bringing their lies here, they get attacked for being liars. The bloggers know that, and they still feel they would rather get the "reads" and have others believe the lies then win by being honest and to the point. I would not be anywhere near as rough on DJ if he just came out with a blog that says "I hate Obama" then I would ask why, but I would allow him his skewed opinion. Instead he CHOOSES to lie.
Have you ever challenged him
Have you ever challenged him to do so?? I just did, and I have in the past. I challenged anyone who felt like taking the question. Instead of answering it, you told me WHY you want to continue attacking. And I'm not even saying "write a five page essay, double spaced, which policies of Obama's you like, and it's due tomorrow." If you have it, solid in your mind, excellent. My real challenge is to bring it out more often. There is a time for attacks. But that doesn't mean the time for positivity should be completely ignored.
There are certain times I agree with you. Letting lies stand is difficult, and there's a very fine line between whether you should let them stand unanswered, or address them. For me, if I can prove it, why do I need to hit them over the head? :)
Because hitting them over the head is
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
the only way they will "get it". Some people (DJ) will lie and then sit back and act all "why are you attacking me?" I have no tolerance for that kind of crap...never have had, never will have. It is near impossible to talk sense to someone who is purposely lying...and his lies are pure evil. He is both a racist and a right wing conservative liar. People that I meet in real life outside of the blog world get the same reaction and they too will be blasted if they persist in lying outright.
IG, I'm wondering just what put you up on this high-horse.
Your preference for positive opinions is fine - I have no problem with that. Your dislike of the negative is shared by many others, including me. I do have my reasons for emphasizing some of the negative and I will continue to do so when I feel it is necessary and appropriate. I will also emphasize the positive when I feel it is necessary and appropriate. In fact, I've done both.
But while I am doing whatever I feel called upon to do at the moment, never doubt that I am also accomplishing things - both on this blog and elsewhere. The fact that you don't perceive the value of those accomplishments in no way negates their importance to me or anyone else.
I'm sorry you see it that
I'm sorry you see it that way. Especially since your first paragraph backs up exactly what I'm trying to say.
There is a place for everything. That includes some negativity and attacks. But if you don't have just as many things positive to say about your own choice for President as you do negative things about the other guy, don't you see some sort of problem with that? Great, so Obama is giving a lot of people a reason to care about politics. What's going to happen when we don't have such a dynamic candidate. Oh yeah! We elect Bush a second time.
The candidates are busy going back and forth over how many homes they have and who helped buy them, and who's the bigger celebrity. I know how many homes I have. I don't know how I'm going to keep them. And people keep getting sucked into these completely pointless dialogs. I don't give a damn about McCain's homes. I care about mine a lot more. For that matter, I don't even care if he called his wife a c*nt, beyond it making him a jerk. But, umm, I already knew that. By getting caught up in the attacks, and focusing all our energy there, we're ignoring the real issues. And I'm watching Obama's numbers tick downwards, and wondering how I'm supposed to convince anyone to VOTE FOR OBAMA if the main talking points are 1) MCCAIN has a lot of property and 2) MCCAIN was mean to his wife. That's like me asking you whether you like vanilla ice cream and you tell me hamburgers suck. They're both about food, so they must obviously be related.
You know the one question I'd ask both candidates? What's RIGHT with the system? What's working the way it's supposed to? You hear them talk about what's broken, and how they want to fix it. But I'm not looking for a superhero, and I'm definitely not looking for someone who's power hungry. There has to be something that made them excited in the first place. Something that made them think, "That's the way it's supposed to happen." If they don't know what success looks like, how are they going to replicate it?
I think it's more their job to point out
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
what's broken. Success is something both candidates do have in common or they wouldn't be the nominees in the first place. No one is saying "McCain has a lot of property"...what they ARE saying is that he is lying about how much he does have, while attacking Obama for being uppity. You not only know this IG but you yourself should get pissed off and somewhat indignant when lies are being spread about whichever candidate you back is being lied about.
So, instead of practicing what you preach, you are
continuing with the negativity while continuing to put everyone else down for their negativity.
All you've done is bitch about what you've seen in the campaigns and on this blog and yet, you haven't raised one positive issue yourself. Frankly, I don't see where you are doing anything different than anyone else.
So I'm left wondering, just what makes you think you are doing so much better than anyone else?
You're absolutely right.
And the most positive thing it seems I can do at this point is leave. I never should have posted it to begin with. I will not back down from my position. I will not suddenly begin believing that it's okay to attack someone. I will not develop a fanaticism in my beliefs that I do not have or want. But I will shut up and keep from commenting on it.
Sorry, IG
I’m sorry I didn’t see this post sooner. But, I’m voting for Obama because I can’t vote for McCain. Clear & simple. I don’t have the faith in him that I had in Hillary, but oh well, I’ll have to hope. The big surprise to me is that outside of issues I cannot over-look, I do like McCain. And, I’m not just talking about the man’s wit. But, things like the war - just one example - prevent me from giving him my vote. Hell, even the ignorant arguments about McCain wanting to throw out Roe Vs. Wade are nothing to actually worry about. Come on, people, we’ve had Republican’s in the White House and filling house seats before and it ain’t going nowhere. But, it does make for a good scare tactic for those easily scared! There’s also McCain’s running mate. His defense of her was pretty good, but when I think about all the things she has going on in her personal life, it doesn’t seem like a good choice. Let’s face it, I have one special needs kid who will fare much better than hers and I’M saying that! Being a parent is hard enough, but to a baby with Down’s syndrome is going to take far more of her attention than she’d be able to give.
So, I think there’s hope with his foreign negotiations and getting our troops the hell home. I’m not sure of he’ll be able to stop the Russia crap, but I’m hopeful. And, even though his health care plan won’t do me or my kid any good, who knows what will come in the future! Maybe his changes will eventually lead to universal health care or even something better. The bottom line is that we won’t know what he’ll actually do until (if) he’s in office. And, as you’ve pointed out time & time again, he’s in for a world of bullshit and it’ll be years before we really see any relief from everything. So, at this point, I’m only hoping it doesn’t get any worse!
I do applaud you for at least trying! As you know, I asked the same question on numb-between-the-ears blog and you were one of two to actually answer it. So, it doesn’t really surprise me that your question went ignored. But, what does surprise me is the level of nastiness. You’ve openly supported Obama since day 1 and if you of all people felt compelled to speak out against the petty, holier than thou bullshit, it would seem reasonable to expect better than that. But, whatever. You’ve continually taken the high ROAD, not the high horse.
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All I know, Spooky
is that at the end of the day, I may have to make compromises. But I'll be goddamned if I ever put myself in a position to FEEL compromised.
I once heard someone use the phrase, "In a world where black and white make rainbows..." That's how I see politics. I have to believe that some of the more enthusiastic Republicans are trying to vote in a way that they think is the best direction for the nation. I don't agree with them in many respects, but our approach is the same. So how much do I really get to tear into them? And I really have to believe that they are trying to do what they think is best. Otherwise, they are agents of chaos. They are like the Joker. In which case, arguing with them STILL won't do much good.
Exactly, IG
And despite all the nasty attacks and bullshit, I dont' give a fuck. Because *I* know that my bases were covered and that my choices have been made by asking questions and seeking out answers. Not fantasy. Not wishful thinking. Just the facts, ma'am, only the facts.
I've also known a great number of Republicans over the years, so I could never label them as evil. That's as ignorant as Dems being labeled as stupid or flaky. It's simply that we generally don't agree on what's the best tactic for fixing our countries problems. Some are out for the dark side, but that can be said for both sides! It's just a shame that of the enthusiastic members on each side, they don't see that they're doing the same things they accuse their opponents of!
STALKING EDGAR ON MYSPACE
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High roads and High horses eh?
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
Well needless to say I beg to differ...it is an emotional topic because it DOES matter who you choose this time around...and if you are not worried that McCain and the twaat he chose should happen to win, then you are only fooling yourself. Mz Palin has said on many an occasion that if it were up to her she would get rid of Roe vs Wade...that is not an assumption, that is a fact...what you happen to so admire about McCain is just your way of saying you don't have the guts to vote him in because he is not the "popular" pick. Get your head out of your ass and stand up for whichever side you want, then stick with it. Now that IS being "nasty".
It's all you seem to know
Get as nasty as you want because it won't change a thing. As far as my vote goes, if you'd have taken the time to actually read what I wrote, you'd see my decision was well thought out and had nothing to do with the "popular vote". And, if I did think McCain was the better choice, I'd vote for him and not give a rats ass about what you or anyone thinks. I haven't since day 1! But, you don't want to see that just like you don't want to see anything else. Whatever. If you listened to anyone instead of making your sweeping, ignorant assumptions, you'd know that I HAVE chosen a side and stuck to it! No where has my position wavered. Not once! So, the question isn't so much about where my head is - it's where's yours since you can't even bother yourself to read a comment before replying to it.
And, you want to talk about ignorance! Roe Vs. Wade has been a scare tactic for decades now! Do yourself a favor and look up the number of times someone has tried to over turn it and failed! So what if she doesn't like it, she'll NEVER get rid of it. No one will. And, at this point I'm not worried that McCain will be elected. Unless there's a huge turning of the tide, I have every confidence that Obama will win.
STALKING EDGAR ON MYSPACE
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Well Spooky if I had a small daughter
http://bloggerparty.com/blog/sassys
and I knew that there are only two liberal thinking judges left on the Supreme Court then I would be very scared right now. It is not a scare tactic, rather a warning to all women, even if you don' have a daughter, if you yourself get raped and pregnant as a cause of that rape without Roe Vs. Wade you will have to go outside of this country to get an abortion legally...and you, who love to travel so much, can't afford it.
How is this comment any
How is this comment any different than the Republican scare tactics that have been used for the last eight years?? "Keep our borders safe! Fight wars preemptively! Raise the terror alert level and make moms drink their breastmilk at the airports!! We have to do this because if we don't, things *might* happen. I can't tell you when, but I'm absolutely convinced they will!!"
And no. On the very slight chance that it was overturned, people would not have to go to a different country. They would go to a different state. That's not an excuse to overturn it, but it's completely nonsense to buy into the scare tactics about it.
My Two Cents,...
if I may.
Your initial premise highlights something very intriguing in American politics, that being that voters don't always know why they're voting for someone, or exactly what they might be capable of doing. Truth be told, it's the same thing about most people and their religion; they follow it because it's there, but probably couldn't tell you much beyond two or three stories they remember.
Deciding why one wishes to vote, ultimate, is a gut decision by the person who's voting. Hoping that campaigns don't get ugly and nasty is a pipe dream, because it has to happen. Why? Because it works, that's why. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all this noise over a statement, which I'd never heard today, about putting lipstick on a pig (I thought I saw that in a cartoon once).
Does someone have to "really" support a candidate to vote for that candidate? Nope. In the long run, it's more important to try to figure how why one will swing one way or the other rather than absolute support. The last candidate I had absolute support for in a presidential election was Clinton in 1996. The last political candidate I had absolute support for was Spitzer in 2006; that didn't work out so well, did it?
To this end, I will be supporting Obama in this year's election, though not absolutely. I was for Senator Clinton, and now she's pulling for Obama, so I'm going that way. In my mind, there are tons of issues, but there's only 3 that really count, which tip the scales in Obama's favor:
1. The economy. Bush has created the largest deficit in history after Clinton had given us the largest surplus in history. More jobs are leaving the country, and there are fewer companies because of all these mergers; we're going back to the types of monopolies that were discarded during the term of Bush number one. McCain says some of the same things as Bush when it comes to economics; we need a change.
2. The Supreme Court. Notwithstanding your statement, though somewhat true, that if Roe V. Wade is overturned it becomes a state issue (and NY will always support abortion), the fact is that personal rights are being beaten down by this strongly conservative court, and minorities, a biggie on my personal list, are being forgotten and overlooked. I don't want McCain putting more conservatives on the bench, which is a strong possibility because two of the oldest are liberal.
3. The Incursion into Iraq. I refuse to call it a war because it wasn't a war, it was a whipping, and now it's an albatross around our necks. I have no love for Saddam, and truthfully I still feel he had to go, but it has always been more important, in my opinion, that Afghanistan become stable and safe than anything Iraq might have been thinking about. Afghanistan is still in the sphere of influence of Russia, still having battles with the Taliban, and Osama and friends are still out there somewhere. With the basic fall of Pakistan from our friends "list" and discord with countries like Syria and Iran, our troops are spread way too thin; how does that protect this country? I don't believe Obama should pull the troops on day one, but he needs to have a definite plan to get every last troop out of Iraq by the end of 2009. They don't need troops anymore, they need advisor's. And if they don't heed the advice,... well then, it wasn't meant to be. But we need to be out of Iraq.
And there you go, my opinion on it all. You won't get yelling or attack mode from me because it's not my style (well, not usually anyway), but it's my opinion, for better or worse. And, by the way, I'd vote for a mechanic if I thought he could do the job.
Reviews of Everything, reviews and opinions of, well, almost anything!
Of course you may, Catfish. :)
Just today on Newsweek, they had an article that basically addressed this exact phenomenon. They had one point that really drove it home for me. Who is on your ballot at home, and what is their platform? Now, I'm not necessarily asking you to actually list them here. I'm just asking if you know the name without having to google it. The vast majority of people can't tell you. Why not? I mean, politics is much more important on a local level than a national one, because it affects you directly. We talked above about Roe v. Wade. Well, South Dakota has already made it illegal to have an abortion. If you have an abortion in South Dakota, you ARE breaking the law. Now, you can fight it (which is what they are hoping for), but on a state level, you have broken the law, the end, thanks for playing.
And I think you're right that you don't really have to support a candidate to support him. I know your support of Obama is tepid, and I personally have no problem with that. You've shown me at every turn that you do know exactly what the issues are. Hell, if you REALLY supported Spitzer, you took the time to know on that local level that the vast majority of people don't bother with. The problem is, that's not exactly what I'm addressing.
You know your issues, and I do mean YOUR issues. You know what's important to you, you've looked at the candidates, and you've made up your mind. And while it may be a pipe dream to hope that people are voting FOR someone rather than AGAINST someone, it's not one I'm willing to give up. There are some issues such as gay marriage where I absolutely disagree with Senator Obama. And that's precisely the reason why I will never stop hoping that people vote for the person they think can best lead them in the proper direction. He will disappoint me at some point. I am 100% sure of that. But when I start viciously defending him and thinking that he is the next messiah, it hurts that much worse when he does disappoint me. Likewise, when I vilify a guy, I'd better be prepared to eat crow when he does something I approve of. Think about all the people who loved Ralph Nader for President. But when he was seen as one of the root causes for all of Bush's mistakes, people turned on him in and ugly way. And he never deserved it.
But you're probably right about people voting with their gut. Sorry, but I'm probably never going to like it. :)
One final thing- I would never vote for a mechanic, nor a lawyer, nor a Senator. I vote for a President. Now, a good leader is a good leader, no matter where they come from. But in the end, no matter where they come from, they have to be prepared to leave it behind. That's one job that will age you like nothing else, because you have responsibilities like nobody else. In the end, we're in agreement that we'd hire any qualified person. I'm just taking the longer way of getting around to that statement. ;)
They seem to like the Republicans at Blogevolve...
but at least they know this Kiwi doesn't have much time for them.
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