Is there any truth to the Bible?

This is a serious question, I mean to try and find some actual evidence for any truth at all to the Biblical material.
This can come from either the New Testament or the Old, and I desire actual evidence.
The situation is far more serious than most people seem to realize,
The fact that some people feel elation over having turned their lives over to Jesus or God is only proof that something happened to the person when this was done, not that Jesus or God exists.
I want to know if there is any solid evidence anywhere which would indicate the Church deals with facts.
Best Rasmus
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Don't ask such questions to religions
Because you will be called heretic and will be burned. The religions around the world have been doing this. They are scared of facing real questions. Questions that might shake the very base of religions. http://www.teafire.blogspot.com/
Asking Questions
Mybe I will be called names by asking questions but what do they call those who just follow without asking questions?
Best Rasmus
Blog to debunk Religion http://www.gnosisquest.com/phpBB2/
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Jews are encouraged to question, they even challenge God,
we pray standing up, not on our knees or prostrate with faces in the dirt. We behave as equals and study Torah and Talmud within a dialectic and a q and a format. One is discouraged from studying scripture alone.
Its clear you dont want proof or you would have responded to my post on archeological evidence of David and Solomon.
I used to read you often when I thought you were interested in dialogue but I have since stopped.
good luck in your efforts to "refute" Judaism, Im afraid youll never succeed on that one. As for Christianity and Islam, I suppose others will defend those.
This is the belligerent, bombastic blog!
Questioning God
I have no recollection of you posting any proof regarding either David or Solomon.
The only material which exist which supports David is the Tel Dan inscription because of its mentioning of the house of David', if this is the correct translation of bjtdwd, which was written on the inscription. If this referred to the House of David there is still nothing which supports the Biblical David as no mention is made regarding the beliefs of the person there mentioned.
There is no support anywhere for Solomon, he may have been a composite figure made up of Solon, Ramesses II and others.
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Gnosis, its on writing up and its addressed to YOU. Ill post the
link hjere so you can jump to it. I thought you were just ignoring me. Its amazing how new blog posts get so lost on writing up so quickly.
here For Gnosis and others who..
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Lost Posts
I went to the link you provided and there was far too much material for me to go through right now.
I do remember you sending me that link and I had trouble finding any proof or evidence of David at that time also.
I believe I intended to get back to search some more for real evidence posted but may have forgotten due to various circumstances in my life.
The link itself holds no real argument on the first page for David having been a historical person, perhaps you could find for me exactly where the material is?
I do not intentionally ignore anyone so that was not the reason I did not respond.
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
I Believe There is
but religion is about faith. If you try to prove God, then God doesn't really exist for you. If you can't look around and see what a miracle life is then you aren't looking hard enough.
The DNA strands in a single cell if printed on typing paper is so long, it would fill volumes of paper and a room full of file cabinets. The code is so perfect, that each cell "knows" what it is supposed to do. Nothing in this universe is as you see it. Everything you know or see is the result of how your brain interprets it. Your world is unique to you. and in the midst of all this amazing stuff, you have been created, or evolved or however you want to say it, to be able to meditate, think and pray. You have the unique ability to question God and believe in Him both at the same time. If you can't see God in yourself then you won't find Him anyplace else either.
Belief versus Knowledge,
That there are things which are complicated does not prove the existence of any God.
That someone would employ lack of understanding as proof of their God only proves their lack of understanding.
Perhaps God is in every human being, nowhere else, who knows? Yet not asking questions about the most important aspects of life is to me incomprehensible!
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Now there I agree with you totally mszola!~
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It's Called
Blind Faith.......you have choices...you can believe or you don't have to. You can study and question or you can follow blindly. As Jesus said, "The problem with the blind following the blind is that they both can end up in a ditch."
Why do you assume others dont ask questions, I know Christians
are discouraged from challenging or questioning scripture. the fun thing about Judaism is that we spend all our time proving and questioning and analysing.
Have you actually read the Talmud, by the way? And are you aware of the Oral Torah or Oral Tradition as it is sometimes called. The stories (which you sometimes rightly identify as having anachronisms like camels) were handed down for generations in the oral storytelling tradition prior to Moses' time, hence the discrepancies re camels. Do not start off by telling me the israelietes didnt exist and that the bible is purloined sumerian and Egyptian mythology. When you link Ra to the word Israel it is clear you dont speak Hebrew or Aramaic or even ancient Egyptian. And I believe you are a student of Egyptology, no?
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Don't Forget
Jesus and ALL of his disciples were Jewish. I am a Christian but my whole religion is based on Judism. From the first book to the last.
Questioning Scripture,
Yes I have read the Talmud, recently however I have been far more interested in the material which has come to light from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Biblical material there discovered.
The fact that the material from these caves does not reflect a verbatim retelling over time but show changes from the earliest to later manuscripts has put a lot of doubt in the verbatim tradition of the Judaic retelling of the oral Torah.(Read 'The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible by Abegg, Flint and Ulrich).
The linking of Israel to Isis, Ra and El has been done by many others, whether or not this was the case is not conclusive. I have not said the Israelites did not exist prior to the third century BCE, I have said we have no written material from the Israelites prior to this time and since some people are counted from the time written material is found from them Israel would be counted from about three hundred BCE by the same measuring implement.
I believe the Israelites were the ancient Shasu who disappeared about the thirteenth century BCE. I am convinced that the tribe then reappeared in Palestine about three hundred BCE again and in an attempt to validate their beliefs modified their early religion with the use of material from other peoples of the Near East.
The Israelites count themselves from Abraham who allegedly lived about 2000 BCE, yet the legend of Abraham is also on very shaky ground.
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Let me reiterate
You cannot prove God. God doesn't need the proof. We do.
Christian based on Judaism?? But you changed all the
holidays, the jewish interpretations, the concept of original sin doesnt even exist in Judaism (we consider it a move up in independence, that Eve acted like a jewish wife pushing her husband to leave her daddy's company and strike out on his own).
You and Gnosis demonstrate familiarity with the Bible but NOT with jewish interpretation or meaning of it.
Catholics baffle me because - to my limited and humble brain - they break the first two commandments all the time, by having statues in church and by believing in Jesus' divinity (even the Messiah is not divine, according to Jews, but a human). The idea of praying to Jesus seems blasphemous to Jews.
I say all this with great respect. Christianity has some beautiful and complex tenets and has inspired (or at least commissioned0 some of the greatest art humanity has BUT I simply question the need to change everything. If Christians base things on Judiams, why the need to have the liturgy in Latin rather than Hebrew? All kinds of q's like that.
But I do enjoy examining the similarities too.
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I Am An Unusual Christian
because I believe that you are absolutely right. Jesus NEVER asked to be worshiped. In fact it was against everything He said.
Jesus said he was there to do his Father's work, he never claimed to be God. I don't understand the Christian movement to make Jesus...God.
I also don't understand why the church has embraced Paul's philosophy. Jesus actually said Peter was the rock upon which the church was to be built. Paul's teaching and Peter's are totally opposite as was the difference between Paul and Jesus.
As a Christian, Jesus is my teacher. He taught two commandments which were Old Testament commandments. He NEVER took Judaism out of his teaching.
So Far
every Biblical archaeological find has proven not disproven Biblical claims. Many places which were thought to be mythical actually turned up where they were supposed to be.
So Far is not far enough.
The statement that every Biblical Archeological find has proven the Bible is absurd.
Read Amihai Mazar, he wrote a book regarding 10 000 years of Canaan, can't recall the name right now but his story about Jericho, Ai, the time of the Judges etc. all discredit the Biblical stories.
Read the material on Ras Shamras/ Ugarit, the Canaanite city of 1300 BCE.
Read Donald B. Redford, Egypt, Canaan and Israel in ancient times.
Read the material on Nebuchadnezzar and Nabonidus, the Babylonian Kings.
Read the material on the Sumerians and the Hittites, read the latest translations from Egypt. Read the material from theologians and archeologists who are not evangelists regarding the Exodus.
There are numerous books published every year which deny any truth to the statement that Biblical Archeological finds do not disprove Biblical claims.
Biblical Historicity is no longer a subject among serious scholars as the effort to align history with the material from the Bible is impossible in light of today’s knowledge.
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
What I Don't Understand
is why people try so hard to discredit the Bible. Why should it matter to them? They don't have to adhere to any of it if they don't want to.
Discrediting the Bible
It is harder for me to understand why anyone would attempt to cling to the Bible if there is not substantial evidence for it being correct!
Millions of children are taught from the time they are still at their mothers breast not to question the "word of God".
Some of the religionists are taught they failed God, 'we are all sinners' which was what caused Jesus to sacrifice his life!
The teaching of such concepts to children has no beneficial merit. When children are forbidden certain questions or given answers which are incorrect their entire lives can become impeded.
There are a great many things which humanity does not as yet understand, spiritually as well as other aspects which may be even more important.
If human development is impaired because a search for answers is against the wishes of some God which never existed the crime against humanity is enormous, so why discredit the Bible you ask?
Seeing that the material of the Bible can't be defended; defending it is a crime against humanity!
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Are You Sure?
The world is full of misinformation. Pliney the Elder wrote an encyclopedia in which about 1/2 is misinformation. That misinformation is still being taught.
Too often it is people who misunderstand, misinterpret, and misuse information whether it is religious or otherwise. That doesn't make the book wrong or bad...it just means people made a mistake.
I'm positive!
You are correct, the world is full of misinformation; you are also absolutely correct in your statement that this does not make the book bad or people bad.
The problem we have is that every decision we make is based on the best available knowledge we have from all available sources. If we do not have the correct information we can't possibly make the correct decisions.
What we need to be careful of is basing anything on wishful thinking or the opinions of those who may not have had the required knowledge in the past.
All information must be questioned; all opinions must be qualified as opinions.
Now what do you think our quality of life would be like if we had a theological statement which said: "Humanity is all basically honest ethical and moral, any deviation from honesty is an insult to God"?
Do you think maybe things would be better than in a society which stated we are all sinners?
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Judaism is the religion you describe sir, it does
not believe or teach that we are all sinners and the real golden rue came from the Hebrews and has been misinterpreted too, it does not state that one should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Rather the true rule reads: Do NOT do unto others what you would not have done to you. BIG difference.
So you see, you are refuting Christianity with every breath but you dont ever make a relevant or truthful or insightful statement about Judaism because you do not know our interpretation nor our more accurate readings (in the original Hebrew not a variety of translations).
Another example, Solomon (who did exist) never said vanity of vanities, all is vanity there is nothing new under the sun.
The translation should be Vapour or breath, not vanity.
Please visit my Judaism relatede posts, you might get someeducation. I mean this sincerely. Just simple "reading" and a different culture's interpretation (yours) of a people's book of history and law is quite arrogant and you are not reacting to the true text.
as for the bible being factually accurate, that is not the point. Is there wisdom in the laws. Do these behaviours lead to destruciton or survival of a people. Consider the Jews and how many times far greater powers have attempted their annihialtion YEt despite being o\grossly outnumbered, despite worldwide hatred and prejudice, the tiny percentage of Jewish people not only survive but have KEPT the SAME language, religion, culture, and values over four thousand years. Has any other people done that, even with odds and circumstances in their favour?? Point to one. (Ill admit Im ignorant of many Eastern histories and peoples).
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Judaism and sin,
You are correct in that Judaism do not teach we are sinners, according to Judaism sin was brought to earth as described in Gen: 6, by the sons of God. This was further elaborated on in the Books of Enoch which told how devastating it was when these sons of God came to earth.
The material from Gen: 6 and Enoch should be enough to convince anyone that the Christian concept of Jesus as a son of God could not have materialized under Judaism.
The fact Christians have perverted the Judaic Bible is very well attested to after the Dead Sea Scrolls, this was the reason the scrolls were kept out of the public eye for so long and why the Christians attempted to pawn the scrolls off on the Essenes.
We can disagree on Solomon, until I see some real evidence that he existed he will be the Greek lawgiver Solon to me.
AS to reading of Judaism, the material available from 2000 years ago pertaining to Judaism is the original Judaic material,
I have not attacked the wisdom literature of Israel, and I believe you are wrong; it matters an awfully lot that the Biblical material is not factual, people base their lives on it being factual. People's lives are ruined because they take the Old Testament literally; therefore it is extremely important.
I do not hold any hatred toward the Israelites, their honesty exceed the miserable showing of the Christians, yet it is only the literal interpretation of the Bible as the word of God which I oppose since that is completely impossible!
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
the statment you made about honesty is all over the OT and
Im sorry but I have a hard time believing you or anyone who isnt a Jewish scholar has read the entire Talmud. We are talking many many volumes, you know...which talmud are you more familiar with?
You must know that it occupies itself so much with justice, with protection of the weak, the sick, the poor. You must know about Maimonedes and how he discredited astrology or any kind of predictions as being superstition yet here we are, hundreds of years later, and most of the US reads its horoscope daily. More Americans believe in UFOS than in their ownb government.
The 613 commandments which Jews are supposed to follow comprise every imperative statment God is said to have made in the OT.
The first being Be fruitful and multiply.
The post on Solomon and David indicates archeological evidence for those two guys. Have you ever looked up the isralie ministry of antiquities for hundreds of archeological finds related to stories in teh bible. yes I know there is a dearth of evidence in the desert re the forty years wandering but many people have interesting theories on why that is so. Andlack of evidence does not prove a negative, you are smart enough to know that.
This is the belligerent, bombastic blog!
Lack of evidence indicates likelyhood of truth
First of all you must realize that the amount of evidence indicates the likelihood of event being true. When no external evidence supports an event its likelihood of having occurred is diminished.
Regarding the Talmud, this is what Wikipedia states:
"The Talmud (תלמוד) is a record of rabbinic discussions of Jewish law, ethics, customs, and stories, which are authoritative in Jewish tradition. It is the fundamental source for rabbinic legislation and case law. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah, which is the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara, a discussion of the Mishnah (though the terms Talmud and Gemara are often used interchangeably)."
And you are correct I have not read it in it's entirety, if I stated I have I referred to the OT and not the Talmud for though I have read much of the Talmud and am familiar with Maimonedes I have not spent the time on it that I have on other material.
OK, so we'll disagree on David and Solomon, I do not believe they have lived. I am quite familiar with the isralie ministry of antiquities, yet they do not possess firm evidence of either of those as having been factual people.
Was it not Maimonedes who contested that the creation stories from the Pentateuch were allegorical and not meant to be taken literally? If that was accepted I would have no objection to the Bible, as it stands it does not make for a better world.
Best Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.
Can You Even Imagine
The number of people who have lived and died on this earth and there is no record that they ever lived?
I find it odd that people will accept other ancient writings as proof of historical events and yet many of these writings were slanted in such a way that really made them fiction. The Hittites and the Egyptians were notorius for misrepresenting the truth. Even the same exact event written about between these two peoples sounded like completely different wars because both claimed a different outcome to the war.
It happens today. News papers from around the world have their own agenda in mind when the article is written.
You know if in 500 years an archaelogist finds a news report which talks about a beautiful princess who died and the streets were filled with flowers and she was buried on a small island....it would sound like fiction....a myth, but that's the way it was when Princess Diana died.
Visit the British Museum of Science and suddenly, while viewing oddities in nature, one realizes how much of the world's mythological creatures were conceived.
Even if everything in the past wasn't written word for word as it exactly happened, they did a pretty good job of keeping records and understanding events.
Our Imaginatory Realities,
You are quite correct ms Zola; just listening to the different renditions made by eye witnesses to an event indicates that we can vary widely when it comes to seeing what really happens.
This does not come from a desire to slant the truth in most instances but just from the fact we have problems duplicating what we perceive.
Now the imagination is not something that I would want anyone to abolish, life would be very boring without it, yet there are times when we need to distinguish the difference between imaginary realities and those which are factual.
We are not bad or evil, yet when it comes to determining weather anything is true we do need as many sources of information as possible, the more significant the information the more critical external verification of our sources becomes.
Best Regards Rasmus
Behind every excuse lies a failure, to justify a failure only compounds its magnitude.