Is It Really Your Time To Go?

Is It Really Your Time To Go?

Submitted by ammorton on January 27, 2008 - 4:58pm. death | killed | planned | shot

You know the old saying "when it's your time to die, it's your time to die". Well does that really hold true when someone attempts to kill you once and fails, but then succeeds the second time around?

Here's the story. In Leavenworth, Kansas, back on January 11, a young, pregnant girl and her friend lived in a house that someone had tried to blow up by using a pipe bomb. It was placed under the porch and actually directly under where the pregnant girls bedroom was.

They both managed to escape this unharmed. The investigation continued for the next couple of weeks.

Just last Tuesday night the pregnant girl was visiting the father of her unborn child, and she was shot to death in his trailer. He called 911 and said that someone had broken into the trailer and shot her, then fled into the woods behind the trailer park.

Well as it turns out, the boyfriend was arrested Wednesday evening and formerly charged Thursday morning with the murder of this girl. Also another suspect was taken into custody for the bombing of the house back on January 11th. He was also charged on Friday morning.

Come to find out, the boyfriend and this other man were involved with the bombing of the house and when that didn't kill her, he shot and killed her.
The baby obviously died as a result of this.

Kansas has a new law in place where a person can be charged with two counts of murder if a unborn baby dies as the result of the death of the mother.
They are trying to decide if they can apply this second charge of murder on top of hers.

Meanwhile the other guy has been charged with conspiracy to commit murder by using a pipe bomb on the house.

My niece has a boyfriend that lives in the same town and guess what, she was at a party where the man who was charged with conspiracy to commit murder was also at. Seems as if her boyfriend knows both of these guys and they all share some of the same friends. A little scary.

So my point in this post was(sorry to get to off point)-is it actually your time to go if someone plans to kill you and it doesn't work, so they try again? Kind of confusing, what do you think.

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Tis a tough one

Submitted by mkempong on January 27, 2008 - 10:49pm.

We are dealing with an unknown, unseen world.

From your post I think you believe in fate and destination. When you said "your time to go" I think you're refering to a fixed predefined time -- which is related to fate.

That means we believe in the same thing. God exists and controls fate -- may be not the bearded big guy sitting on the clouds but a powerful being that is beyond our imagination.

That makes it easier to explain -- we are using more or less a same yardstick.

In the scriptures of one of the major religions of the world, there is a story about Prophet Noah.
His people were about to be destroyed due to widespread sinful acts.

The verse says,
-- Noah said to his people,"If you repent and come back to the religion, then God will forgive you and delay the destruction."

The point is, our fates are NOT fixed timewise. It could be delayed. They depend heavily on what you do TODAY.

Yet it is not 100% determined by us alone. It is more like 50-50. There are things God let us control, there are things that God controls fully.

That's from one of the scriptures. Don't know what other scriptures say.

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ammorton,

Submitted by seanlovett on January 28, 2008 - 2:11am.

I'm really not sure about this one. But, I think I'm leaning towards no. The reason why is because I don't believe in fate or pre-destiny. I do believe in god (I know how strange it is to hear that coming from me)and I believe that we have free will.

What I mean is that we all have the ability to make conscious decisions that will determine outcomes, no matter how small or big.

If someone isn't paying attention, steps off a curb and becomes one with the front end of a bus, was it their time to go? I don't think so. It was just a tragic accident that could have been avoided had that person been paying attention before stepping out in the street.

In the case of murder, I still believe it's free will. Unfortunately, it's the free will of the murderer rather than the victim.

I guess my overall point is that I don't believe god would give us free will - the ability to make our own decisions - in every aspect of our lives if he/she would still be controlling how and when our time on this earth would be over. I prefer to think of god's attitude towards us, our lives, as a sort of "Here ya go. Let me know if you need me."

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying that I prefer the peaceful, loving god rather than the gloom and doom and strike you down version.

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Good Point Sean

Submitted by ammorton on January 28, 2008 - 3:19pm.

I get what your saying. I also like your preference about god's attitude towards us, thats kind of funny. I'm with ya on the peaceful, loving god as well.
It was such a terrible story, and I don't know what got me to thinking about it being her time to go-she very well could have died the first time, but it took two attempts for this man to accomplish this. Thanks for the comment.

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This is tough, ammorton!

Submitted by spookyyank on January 28, 2008 - 6:21pm.

I really don't know! My frist instinct was to type - "Not sure, let me think it over and get back to ya!". But, there's a lot of different ways to look at it - so many that I may never comment! I'm kind of inclined to think that it has to do with how one leads their life. A person who never takes risks is less likely to be gunned down in a bar fight. But, really, it doesn't seem to be right that someone really has a time. If there is, it's terribly cruel to think. In this girl's case it's just so sad. Sad that she died, sad that she was with someone like that. I'm forever dumbfounded by this sort og thing. How does anyone even get to the place where murdering the woman carrying their child is the answer???

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"becomes one with the front end of a bus...."

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 29, 2008 - 10:18am.

Just couldn't help but laugh at that one. Sean has such a way with words!

But I really do believe that when you go, it is your time to go. I don't believe in the typical kind of God - I believe that we are all God - and I believe that, at some point in our lives, our spirits (souls, higher-selves, whatever) make a decision that we've accomplished what we set out to do in this life and that it's time to move on. At that point, it is our time to go and I don't really believe that we go before that - although the mechanics of keeping us here in spite of all the things that can happen to remove us from this plane elude me.

Maybe this poor little girl had something more to do before she left this plane. It seems pretty darned amazing that she survived the bombing and maybe that's because her higher-self was protecting her so that she could finish her task.

And whatever the case, I keep thinking about Spooky's comment about getting to the point where murdering your pregnant girlfriend is the answer. Jeez! How does a person get to that point - what kind of person can even conceive of getting to that point? Poor little girl. She had to have known, at the very end, who was doing this to her. Bad enough to be murdered - but to be murdered at the hands of someone you thought cared for you?

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I don't get it, PW

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 11:30am.

I know when someone old dies - like my maternal grandmother did this past December - I never really knew the woman, but she'd had Alzheimer's for YEARS and it was probably a blessing for her that she finally passed. And, it seems pretty safe and justified to say that it was her time to go. But, I can't help but to think of the young people, babies, innocent victims of crime. Like the mother who does everything to have a healthy pregnancy yet delivers a baby that dies within hours of birth. Perhaps it's my own blindness, but I have never been able to see the rhyme or reason of such things. If that baby's time was 2 hours after birth, it only seems that there would be a reason for it. And, it's there that I'm left wanting for answers. The same goes for a girl (in her 20's and dumb as a post!) I knew in Philadelphia. She was set to marry this guy who was being groomed in the business world to become yet another money-making machine who would take care of her for the rest of her life. Until, that is, someone broke into his workplace (or maybe another employee - I was around after the fact) the person took hostiges, and then murdered everyone. They were killed "execution style". And, so ended the dream. Her family is wealthy so whenever she flunks out of college, they just find another one for her and her apartment and expenses are taken care of. So is her shrink and many meds! Now, if the point of his murder was for her to rise from the life she'd been bred to lead and find her own way - well, that aint happening! So, it still comes back to simply pointless.

I find the notion of being murdered by someone you believe cares for you horrific. It goes beyond the tragedy we see on the news all the time, because love should be a safe harbour. We should fall asleep each night feeling safe next to the person who utters those words. Perhaps it was her inability to believe someone who loved her would be behind that got her killed. Let's face it, that's not something any of us want to think about.

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The thing that keeps me from blowing my own brains out

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 29, 2008 - 12:18pm.

sometimes is that I do believe there is a rhyme and reason to what seems like a senseless death - even if I can't see them. Maybe the death of an infant 2 hours old affected someone involved in the death, the family, the medical staff, maybe even the funeral home attendants so that they could complete a task or see things in a different way or come closer to their God - any number of things. And, here's the inspiring thing, I believe the soul that died in that circumstance probably offered that as a service to another soul - to help that other soul in his/her evolution.

I even believe that suffering is not pointless. Because I believe that we live many lives and learn many lessons in those lives and one of the lessons we need to learn is suffering. We learn to hone our energy through restriction - suffering. Of course, that is one of the things that makes me wish - often - that there is nothing after life on earth - nothing but oblivion. I've suffered enough this lifetime and yet I haven't suffered near what others go through. Just the thought of having to come back and live through something that horrific makes me sincerely hope that there's nothing but oblivion after this life.

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I'm reminded, PW

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 1:17pm.

of the Stephen King short story I'm reading right now (The Library Policeman) and how only last night I was thinking - "This is one of the things that I've always liked about King. How he shines a light on the smaller of evils that happen in the world, yet contribute to the overall effect. They may not be the types of evil that "infect" the world, but they still add a bit more to the issues already present". And, in a way that applies here. I try, try, try to think in those terms. That maybe a death of an innocent has helped someone, somehow. That it doesn't have to be world news or obvious to anyone beyond the person it was intended to "teach". Actually, I know in my own personal experience that I've learned something from the death of a total stranger. But, in my own ignorance, I find it hard to really think about the grand scheme of such things. It's just too depressing!

Actually, I can't bring myself to believe in nothingness after death. Even with all I've been through, I still love life too much to want for anything less than more of it. Even with all the bad, there's so much good and so much to see, do and learn. Hell, even after the last week of pain and suffering, I'm only looking at it as an opportunety to get to the doctor, back to the dentist and seek out the treatments I've needed now, rather than later. Of course, while I was out having a smoke (outside of the ER) and waiting for my brother to arrive - a guy came out to use his cell phone. This is what I over heard - "Ya man, she's all fucked up. Ya, it's bad!". Now, my reasons for being there were valid and the doctor assured me of that, but I still had to step back from my pain and discomfort and remind myself how much worse it could have been. So, again, your theory makes a point in that we all can learn from the badness that befalls others. Even if it's something as small as that.

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Spooky, I simply love Stephen King and I really enjoyed

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 29, 2008 - 2:07pm.

"The Library Policemen." Love your take on King's subjects. It really struck a nerve with me.

And, after everything you have been through lately, I'm so happy to hear that you are still loving life. That was always my wish for you. No point there - just glad to hear you are grounded here with us. :-D

Naw, I really don't believe in oblivion - I just wish for it sometimes. LOL!

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Ya, he still rocks in my book

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 2:26pm.

And, just remember - when I make my fortune (*ahem*) one thing on the list will be a far off, snowed-in, moutain cabin that we can rent for a week or two! Sure, the world will still be there and just down a snowy hilltop road - but we can pretend it isn't! For anywhere between 5 - 10 days we can be left alone with good conversation, good books, dvd's, fine congac (or whatever) and the wonderful ability to pretend we're the only people left on Earth!

Ok, I sugar-coated that a bit - the pretending we're alone in the wolrd because everyone else died from a super-flu might come off as creepy!

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Spooky, don't forget

Submitted by seanlovett on January 29, 2008 - 2:34pm.

to bring the 2x4 and sledgehammer!

Come and see what I'm rambling about now

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No misery allowed

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 2:38pm.

No misery allowed on that trip!

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LOL!!! Great minds think alike, Spooky.

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 29, 2008 - 2:38pm.

That's my dream - to be snow-bound in a cabin so far back that you can't even see the smoke from someone else's fireplace.

Yeah, maybe it'd be easier to sleep if we just pretended that we're so far off the beaten path that no one could ever find us, no matter how hard they looked. LOL!

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Oh, I know PW

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 2:42pm.

And, while the invitations would be greatly limited, you are the one who'd have exclusive access immediately! I've told a number of people (since learning this about you) that I feel so much better to know that my morbid 'Stand' fantasy is shared by someone else! Of all the trips I long to take, that cabin in the mountains is the one I long for the most! But, what I find crazy is how I cannot actually live in an invironment like that. But, I'll try that tonight as I struggle to fall asleep. :-)

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Whoever gets that cabin first, Spooky, it's on!

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 29, 2008 - 3:11pm.

Cause it's way up at the top of my list and you're one of the very few on my list of welcome guests, too. But yeah, same here, I want to be there for a week or two - tops - then I want to go back to the city to all night supermarkets, malls, TV and fast food restaurants. LOL!!!

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Unless I get too sidetracked

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 5:40pm.

Er, as I usually do! I'll try to look up some places in the next few days. I, for one, am sick of planning vacations I don't take! Maybe for New years - that would be cool! To bring in the New Year in complete isolation. Talk about going back to the city with a new outlook! I'll let ya know what I find!

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I FOUND IT, PW!!!!!!

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 8:14pm.

THE MOST AMAZING CABIN ON EARTH! I did a "quick" search before going to the store and found this baby - this jewel - I want to live there! follow this link:
http://www.yourcabin.com/Gatlinburgcabin715.aspx

I don't know how secluded it is - hell, we don't need to go outside! If you check the rates.......well, they might kill you......but, after looking at the other ones I found so far......even the "good" ones in semi to secluded areas - you could hear the banjos through the computer! Who knows, I might find cheaper and not ugly, but I really wanna go here!

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Oh my BOB, Spooky!!!!

Submitted by Pussy Willow on January 30, 2008 - 6:56am.

I want to live there, too!! When I saw the Gatlinburgcabin address I was totally prepared to say 'Oh, HELL no!' cause Gatlinburg, TN is in the heart of "banjo country." But man, after seeing that place, who cares? Indoor swimming pool, pool table, jacuzi tubs - I'd never have to leave the place! And $795 a night isn't all that bad if we bring a couple friends. LOL!!!! Listen to me talking like even $200 a night is doable! Well, it soon will be and we have GOT to go - either this place or some place like it. New Year's 2009 sounds just perfect. It's a date! Woo-Hoo!!!!!

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Isn;t it awsome - and Sassy, look at this!

Submitted by spookyyank on January 30, 2008 - 11:03am.

I am soooo in love with this place! I keep thinking about my comment of not being able to live in a rural area, but this place certainly makes me think twice about that! It looks like the most perfect of writer's paradise! And, I know what you mean! Here I am jobless and nearly broke beyond broke, but still thinking the same as you! "It's do-able if the fee is split!". The only sad thing about this place (maybe someone rich could "fix" it) is that this cabin isn't open through New Years! Argh! The only real stretch of week when it's open (at the cheaper rate) is in May! But, seriously, I'm willing to make ANY month work!

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This is a tough one

Submitted by suejeff on January 29, 2008 - 1:06pm.

on the one hand I agree with Sean, I think that we do have free will and sometimes our death and suffering is the result of another person misusing their free will. At the same time I can see your point PW because I don't think that all suffering is pointless. Even though we may not see the point sometimes I think there is one but when you are on the receiving end or you lose someone as the result of a pointless action it is hard to take any sort of objective viewpoint. Why someone feels that they have the right to take the life of another will always be beyond my comprehension - that's not to say I have never had a murderous thought but there is a big step between fleeting anger and terrible actions.
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Exactly, Sue

Submitted by spookyyank on January 29, 2008 - 1:22pm.

A psych lesson was presented on the show 'Numbers' a few weeks ago about this. As human's we have the ability to have murderous thoughts and fantisies and by having them it actually prevents most of us from actually DOING IT. I'd heard that theory before and absolutely believe it. Everyone has the fantasy to push their boss in front of a speeding bus! The reality, though, is that same person would be horrified if anything bad actually happened to their boss! I guess the key is to find out where and why and what misfires in the people who have the thoughts but carry them out!

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UGH! Well stupid comes to mind here!

Submitted by Sassys on January 30, 2008 - 11:14am.

Sassys

There is hate, then there's this! Talk about really hating someone! Egads! Can you imagine the sheer terror this woman must have gone through? Even God said "Hell yeah let her in". The pearly gates and Peter await us all with some sort of "ledger" and it says "Sassys is NOT allowed in here unless she does some serious explaining" LOL.

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