Illegal, Legal Drivers

Submitted by Catfish on November 10, 2007 - 10:38am. driver's licenses | Illegal aliens | New York state

I guess it's time to weigh in on this particular topic.

Governor Spitzer of New York has proposed giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens in this state. His reasoning is that it would make traffic safer, shrink auto insurance premiums by insuring more drivers and boost security by identifying more immigrants.

This one doesn't even have to come up for debate; it's a terribly bad idea, one that I can't come close to supporting, and I'm liberal. Are you kidding? Isn't there a reason someone is considered to be an illegal alien in the first place?

I mean, let's look at our state and our country to begin with. At least half of all migrant farmers are illegal aliens. Many domestics are illegal aliens. There's a lot of crime committed by illegal aliens. Heck, some illegal aliens participated in something small like bombing the World Trade Center,... twice! In New York, illegal aliens can automatically qualify for Medicaid coverage if they present to the hospital through the emergency room. They can receive their chemotherapy for free under a special emergency provision. All without worrying about those bad, bad immigration officers, people who overall work for the same agency as the people who are doling out Medicaid money. Am I missing something here?

I certainly don't want to go on a Lou Dobbs type of rant, but enough is enough. We can't protect our borders as it is without giving another incentive for more to come. I'm not going to go on this rant about illegals taking our jobs, because the truth is that many Americans don't want to work those jobs for the money some of these weasel "slave drivers" want to pay to boost their own profits.

Let's look at one of those ironic things from two weeks ago. Another teacher had another affair with another student in Nebraska, only these two Einsteins decided to go into Mexico to try to escape. They were both caught, but lo and behold, turns out the kid is an illegal alien, so they won't let him back into the country, and now they're looking to remove the parents. How many years had they been here, and in what's known as America's heartland? You know, it's fairly easy to pick out Mexicans in Nebraska, I have to say; I've been there, and they're as replete as black people outside of the big city. Not quite needle in the haystack territory. My point here is that if these Mensa candidates from the immigration office can't find illegals in broad daylight, what makes us think they'd be able to keep tabs on illegals driving around New York state with impunity?

Bad idea, Governor. Man, when we elected you, we thought we'd be getting something different from the last guy we hated. We didn't think someone who was supposed to be as smart as you're supposed to be would be making some of the stupidest political moves so quickly. You're going to make us wish Pataki was back; that's scary!

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Well Catfish they are driving around

Submitted by Sassys on November 10, 2007 - 1:01pm.

Sassys

with said "impunity" anyways....Might as well at least allow those of us that get into accidents with Paco and Pedro to get some sort of insurance no? You do consider yourself a liberal and yet every time this subject comes up you become well....dare I say it...A Republican??? Hmmm. "This land is my land...this land is your land" Just who's land is it REALLY? I wonder how Poca Hontas would respond.

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Not a Republican, Miss Sassys,...

Submitted by Catfish on November 10, 2007 - 3:28pm.

but an American, pure and simple. Remember, military kid; it's the one principle that I stick behind, no matter what, that being the protection of our own borders. Just asking, but have you ever seen the qualifications for an American to go into Mexico legally? They're tough; go into Mexico illegally and they slap you into jail for years before even thinking about kicking you out, unless someone puts up a stink.

Here's my main point; either make people illegal and have laws to keep them out, or just open the borders without any rules and let everyone in, period. As long as we have the rules on the books, then let's enforce them, not weaken them. If no one else cares who comes into the country, terrorists or not, then so be it, let them all in and let's get ourselves bombed back to the stone ages, like what's happening in the Middle East on a daily basis.

I just want some consistency, period.

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At least with drivers licenses they will know who.....

Submitted by American Rhetor... on November 10, 2007 - 5:19pm.

and where these people are. I don't blame Mexicans for coming to America for work and a better life. It's not their fault that they have a desire for more and better than they can get at home.

What is the criminal act here is that our laws are not being enforced. Supposedly it is illegal to hire a illegal alien but so far the employers for the most part are not facing any fines or actions against their businesses. This is where the problem lies. If you can't get a job here unless you are legal there is no reason to break our laws right? Why are we not enforcing the law?

I have to say I agree with the License being issued to the illegals. Our federal government isn't doing its part to enforce the law but at least this way we know who they are, and where they reside and how many there might be. No, not the best solution but it beats total lawless blindness and until the Federal Government decides to address the issue we can look for state authorities to attempt to deal with the problem the best way they can with the tools they have.

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Well, the governor here,...

Submitted by Catfish on November 10, 2007 - 9:06pm.

is starting to back down, as the polls are showing close to90% disapproval of the plan. This is a tough one to deal with; New York state already has the highest taxes in the country for all the other stuff. This one is truly a bipartisan thing; that's rare for us.

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I don't think illegal aliens

Submitted by Kemo on November 11, 2007 - 12:12am.

I don't think illegal aliens should be given drivers licenses. It just does not sound like a good idea in my opinion...but then again at least we would know who is hear legally or not...I know I don't want to see are borders militarized either...
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I have mixed feelings on the subject.

Submitted by IntricateGirl on November 11, 2007 - 8:49am.

First, just because they are here illegally does not make them a bad person. The way some people in the media and government go on about illegal immigrants is making them out to be cannibal satanists. Typically that's not the case. Most of the time, they just want a better shot at life, and they are doing what they feel they have to do to get it. Furthermore, most would become legal or come legally if given half the chance. But it's not that simple. The US is woefully behind the times in its immigration policies. I'm saying this because I think it's important to realize that just because they are here illegally, does not mean that they are using it as an excuse to break the law. They don't view it as a free-for-all on the law.

Does that mean we should turn a blind eye to it? Of course not. But it also shouldn't cost someone their life, just because they need a simple medical procedure. Let's be very real about it. I am all in favor of treating illegal immigrants at the hospital because it makes my overall health better. If someone is walking around with TB, the tuberculosis doesn't care if I have my citizenship papers in order or not. It's going to get me too. The hospitals that see the greatest number of illegal immigrants are those in the poorer parts of town. The more times a doctor has to treat appendicitis or surgically repair a bone increases his knowledge. And if and when he leaves that hospital for one with better pay, I will benefit from his increased knowledge.

On the border issue- I think the last thing we need is to "tighten" the border. The border is tight enough. What we need much more is a restructuring of the immigration program to make it easier for some to get in, but with better background checks. This is not accomplished through building a wall that would rival Eastern Germany's.

As to driving, I think that giving illegal immigrants a driver's license isn't a bad idea, but I wonder who would apply. Convincing someone that their information is not going to be shared between government agencies is a difficult task. Hospitals for illegal immigrants are often a place of last resort, because they fear that they will be reported. How much worse would it be for an optional situation??

Finally, you'd be surprised how many Mexicans there are in Nebraska, and I would not venture a guess on how many are illegal. But I have some evidence that leads me to believe that the illegal ones are not as common as you might think.

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It's okay to have mixed feelings,...

Submitted by Catfish on November 11, 2007 - 12:12pm.

because, after all, it's somewhat of a delicate subject.

I agree with you that not all illegal aliens who are in the country are here to do bad things. That's not really the point, though. We do have laws, federal laws, that are supposed to be upheld. We the people seem to want to decide which laws we do and don't want to follow, and if we decide to go to the polls and elect the politicians we hope will implement what we want, then that's a good thing, and I'm all for it.

Let's leave illegal immigration for a moment and look at something else, like illegal drugs. I'm of the mindset that no drugs should be illegal. They should be sold in stores and taxed heavily, like cigarettes, and then we move on. If people want to buy chemicals and mix them together and blow their brains out, I'm fine with it. However, it's illegal, and as long as it's illegal then someone should follow the laws and arrest the sellers and the makers, and get the users into treatment programs if they need it. But that's not the way things are happening, for the most part. How many kids are getting their hands on drugs, and easily? How many pushers are there? Tons!

As for the borders being tight enough,... you really feel that? With all the drugs that come into this country, and, of course, talking about illegal aliens to begin with, you feel totally safe, that we have no worries that someone might sneak some kind of heavy explosive into the country within the next few years? I'm not so confident. I know some areas along the US/Canadian border right here in New York where I could easily get across without being noticed. When I lived in Maine, there were many areas where the same could be done if one so chose to.

This isn't a rant against illegal aliens, though it could easily be perceived that way. My state already had the highest taxes in the nation, and this program will drive them up even further. The state has already announced that they're increasing the rates for the NY State Thruway; it was supposed to be free as of 1998, but that's now gone. Bush and family have threatened to reduce the amount of federal funding for our Medicaid program, and the state is telling more and more people that they're not going to qualify for Medicaid unless they start going to work programs and the like, and now suddenly they're going to set up a program, a three-tiered program yet, so that illegal aliens, who aren't supposed to be here to begin with, can get driver's licenses? Nope, I'm not down with that; let another state broker it first, see how much it costs, then maybe.

As to the demographics of Mexicans in Nebraska, there are no official figures for that, or here in New York, but for Hispanics in Nebraska, they make up 6.9% of the overall population of the state (legal, that is; no figures on illegals), or around 80,000 people; in New York, they make up 16.5% of the population, or around 3,185,000. Just to throw some numbers in here.

Or course, at this point, it's moving closer to being a moot discussion, which will be a good thing so Lou Dobbs can have something else to talk about for awhile.

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I'm afraid it may be unsolvable.

Submitted by IntricateGirl on November 11, 2007 - 2:59pm.

As for the demographics of each state, you're right. It's difficult to argue against those numbers. Except that illegal immigrants are rather unlikely to fill out a census form, the census is taken once every ten years, and there has been a HUGE explosion in the number of Mexicans, legal and illegal in just the past few years.

As far as the borders being tight enough, yes, I do believe that. The problem is that the entire program needs restructured. Give honest people a legal way to get in and they will come. Try and prevent those who mean you harm from coming in, and they will find a way every single time. By making it more restrictive, it simply makes it more difficult on those who are trying to do it legally. Drug runners will continue to find a way. Ask any prison guard how big a problem drugs and contraband are in prison, and they will tell you that it's a major issue. And nobody can argue that they aren't doing everything in their power to stop the flow in. Is the answer to open the gates? Of course not. It's to restructure the whole system so that it doesn't become worth it. But with drugs, prisons, and illegal immigrants, if you can figure out that problem, you're well on your way to ruling the country. :) It's not a quick fix, and there aren't easy answers.

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Oh,

Submitted by IntricateGirl on November 11, 2007 - 3:06pm.

and I realize that it's not a rant against illegal immigrants. It's a rant against being asked to pay for something that is illegal, and having to a blind eye to it. But I think that occasionally, the citizens do need to stand up and tell their government to shove it. Some of the people I admire the most are people that saw laws they didn't like, and told the lawmakers that they weren't going to tolerate it. With this issue, we'll see who's going to be the loudest about making their demands known.

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wow, it is complicated

Submitted by spookyyank on November 12, 2007 - 1:11pm.

well, not so much, really. I agree with sassy that it would be nice to recoup damages caused in a traffic accident. BUT, just like us - how many do you think would get the short term insurance in order to get that license and all, only to let it lapse??? I know people who do that all the time! And, my thoughts about "knowing who they are" -it simply creeps me out. It rings too much of setting them up. Am I the only one who sees an illegal going up to the DMV or where ever, handing over his address and cell number and then having his door crashed in in the middle of the night while weapon weilding scary men round up the womens and chitlins???? Uh, I don't think we need to debate an issue that few - if any - illegals will go for!

I have a lot of empathy for people who come here. And, as someone who's tried to get her own Visa to the UK, I can tell you just how many people will NEVER qualify for one here! If those folks in Mexico had a college degree and a good frikin income, they'd not NEED to come here! To me it seems simple. Of course, we need to protect ourselves. Not every illegal is here for a better life. But, things have gotten to a point where joining a terrorist cell isn't possible without detection. And, with interpol FINALLY getting on board in a capacity that it should have years ago - it's becoming even more impossible for even a terrorist wannabe to fly below the radar!

So, in my humble opinion, it's a bad idea because it opens a door for even more exploitation. In a lot of ways I don't even get why we have closed boarders anymore. We have the space! And, until terrorism became a real part of our lives, we didn't live in fear of it! A hardship on our economy?? Er, we spend something like $30 million dollars a YEAR on the homeless "issue". Er, don't we spend more than that each DAY on the war???? I mean, seriously, are we actually afraid that our already over burdened system will become more so by folks who actually work their asses off when here??? I'm all for the medical treatment - even the free chemo - because at least it gives these people a shot at life! Ever heard the warning not to get sick or injured while on Holiday in Mexico??? Not because you'll be treated badly, but because you'll be charged up-front for every kleenex and ever asprin! Now, imagine being one of the locals who can't afford to eat everyday, let alone go to the doctor for cancer treatment!
I say we open the boarders to everyone except criminals! I am so serious about this. I personally know someone from high school with 200 acres of land in Montana she's not doing a thing with! What about all the undeveloped land in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Texas - the list is long! We should - as everyone is processed coming in - state this rule: each person has 6 months to raise the $100.00 US to buy the 1 acre of land they wish to settle on. After purchase is made, they can live on it however they please until a suitable home can be built (with a reasonable time limit, of course. We cannot have children dying of exposure!). The owner of said land MUST live on it for a minimum of 5 years before a legal sale could be made. After 10 years of consistant residency - they can apply for citizenship. Not only would we enable our inept government leaders to wipe out our national debt with those $100 purchases, we'd also erradicate homelesness!

Hell, we should even let in the Canadians! Damn them and their fancy money!

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And minutes ago, the followup,...

Submitted by Catfish on November 13, 2007 - 6:57pm.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer is abandoning his plan to issue driver's
licenses to illegal immigrants, saying that opposition is
just too overwhelming to move forward with such a policy.

The governor, who is to announce the move formally on
Wednesday, said in an interview Tuesday night that he did not
reach the decision easily. "You have perhaps seen me struggle
with it because I thought we had a principled decision, and
it's not necessarily easy to back away from trying to move a
debate forward," he said.

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