Hurtful silliness

Submitted by o ceallaigh on January 9, 2006 - 10:55pm. Abortion | O Ceallaigh's Observations | pro-life | Religion | violence

Silly me. I thought I was done for awhile. Then I made the mistake of reading some of the more recent posts - especially about the "pro-life" crowd.

Abortion should be a non-issue. The time to worry about what to do about a baby is before it is conceived. Children are not toys. Nor are they political footballs. With all the pills and appliances out there to take the place of good old fashioned discipline, there really should be no excuse for consenting partners to have children before they - both of them - are ready. That this still happens means only one thing: people are playing power games. And begging your pardon, I find that both sides, men and women, are guilty.

Men, violence against women is wrong. Women, violence against men is wrong. The violence may be emotional or psychological rather than physical, but it is still violence and it is still wrong. I don't give a flying fickle finger of fate what the cause is. It hurts me. Men, your violence against women means that I have to go through life in the presence of women with a smile on my face 24/7/365, regardless of the circumstances, or be labelled a criminal. If it isn't already too late, if being male isn't already deemed a capital crime in and of itself. Women, if you're wondering why you have a hard time getting me to express my feelings, well, guess.

And what may be most wrong about it, is we don't move forward. If religion exists for any reason at all, it is to remind us that we are imperfect, that we make mistakes. We can be taught not to make them, helped to rectify those we do make, and supported through the whole process. And as we go on, we learn what, in our context, is a mistake, and what is not. Kosher laws and USDA regulations are not identical, because we know much more about food safety in the 21st century CE than in the 6th century BCE. The principle of evolution is different from Genesis because the Mesopotamians of the 12th centure BCE (from whose myths the Genesis stories [sic] were borrowed) wouldn't know a fossil if it bit them.

Bloggers on this site can perhaps be forgiven if their image of "Christians" is that of Imperial Stormtroopers with crosses on their helmets. The Scholar's Version of the New Testament has Jesus of Nazareth describing such self-righteous people thusly: "You phonies! Damn you!" (Mt 23: 13). Fortunately, not all who call themselves "Christians" are like this. The Open and Affirming movement of the United Church of Christ believes that "God is still speaking", and teaching us how to reconcile ourselves with each other and our expanding consciousness of the world around us. Go here for more info, if you're interested.

Also the Jesus Seminar and Westar Institute, authors of the "Scholar's Version" of many New Testament and other first-century Christian writings, tries to cut through all the post-Jesus Greek glitter appended to the biblical narratives (like the bogus birth story and the possibly entirely fictional crucifixion), and focus on what the real Jesus actually was trying to tell us - which, basically, is "God is God, and you should love your neighbor as yourself".

How much respect for the Divine, never mind love for one's neighbor, do we find in pro-life brawls on the Washington Mall??

-O Ceallaigh

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Hurtful Insanity

Submitted by adamsweb on January 9, 2006 - 11:05pm.

First of all, there's a simple word for the Jesus Seminar: heresy.

Secondly, there's much respect. There's love and prayer at these events. There's camraderie and friendship. There are families walking in respect. Go to a life chain sometime (there's one in most major cities), read the back of one of the signs and you'll see its ultimately respectful.

What is denied time and time again by the left is the humanity of the unborn. Lets go along to get along doesn't work when human life is in the balance. I will not be silent, I will bear witness to the Truth.

-That's my thing, keeping the faith, baby-Joe Friday

The Screwtape Reports

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Even more hurtful ignorance

Submitted by o ceallaigh on January 9, 2006 - 11:34pm.

I will bear witness to the Truth.

So will I.

there's a simple word for the Jesus Seminar: heresy.

Name-calling is not an argument. You will have to do better than that. I am much more inclined to support those who are scholars in the languages of the Middle East and who have gone through the whole body of available texts, canonical and otherwise, than others who have not. I find, for example, the account of "proof-texting" (cf. e.gl. Mt 13: 34-35) by the community who produced the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the jarring purposes to which they put that proof-texting, is enlightening to those who would try to understand the New Testament's true message (Vanderkam J. The Dead Sea Scrolls Today.).

There's love and prayer at these events. There's cam[e]raderie and friendship.

I don't doubt it. Any community that doesn't engender these feelings among its members isn't going to last long. Indeed, in my opinion, one of the purposes of an organized religion is to provide a mechanism for the mustering of the "troops" against a perceived threat. That's why armies, and pro football teams, have chaplains. And why Christian and Islamic armies have been murdering each other for a millenium and a half, each in "the name of God".

The Nazis understood this principle very well. Reflect on what separates a "good" cause from an "evil" one. The means are often the same. What then is the end? To establish the good for the whole society, or the good for a narrow oligarchy, using the mobilizing power of the religion (or propaganda machine) for their own purposes? FD Roosevelt or Stalin? It's not always obvious from inside the machine, what the machine's mission is. And often, the ones who are more nearly right are the ones who stand, in doubt, on the sidelines:

The Second Coming

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Not Really Enlightening on New Testament

Submitted by adamsweb on January 10, 2006 - 6:48am.

First of all, the Dead Sea Scrolls provided no insight into the New Testament. The Community was an extreme group of Essenses that predates Christianity and their texts are all about the Old Testament, not the Gospels.

Second, for more scholarly responses see here and here. I'm trying to be brief, heresy is not name-calling. In this case, its what the Jesus Seminsar is. The dictionary defines it as:

An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs.

You're right, the people who are most right on issues, don't get involved like-people who didn't get involved in the abolition movement or Civil Rights were far wiser than we give them credit for according to Yeats.

-That's my thing, keeping the faith, baby-Joe Friday

The Screwtape Reports

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about abortion

Submitted by missmaster on January 10, 2006 - 4:46am.

I agree with what you said about abortion:

Abortion should be a non-issue. The time to worry about what to do about a baby is before it is conceived. Children are not toys. Nor are they political footballs.

I hope this was not a retort in response to my post. My aim with my post was to address life direction, not abortion or naivity regarding having babies. I do have to say that, while you are right that beforehand is the time to worry about whether or not to have a baby, there are circumstances where that is not possible. In this case, a serious discussion must be had as to whether or not the involved parties feel ready and able to bring a child into the world. There are those that would argue that a child 'not born at all' is better than a child brought into an incapable family. Not my view personally but it indicates differing opinions, which is what makes this world an interesting place!

Forgive me if I have grabbed the wrong end of the blog-stick!

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re: about abortion

Submitted by o ceallaigh on January 10, 2006 - 5:06am.

I hope this was not a retort in response to my post.

Certainly not! There are many situations where "the best laid plans" etc,, and yours is one of them. As you say, there are others. I was referring, though, to the cases where the conception results from ignorance, or impetuosity, of the partners, where they proceed with no thought of the consequences. It is this irresponsibility (again, of both partners) that I was addressing - and which fuels the fires of those who would be righteous.

Thanks for your thoughts! And continued good luck with your little one.

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well said

Submitted by missmaster on January 11, 2006 - 8:12am.

...and I agree completely. Thanks for your well wishes!

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