American Torture: Racking Up The Points

American Torture: Racking Up The Points

Like everything else I do in my life lately, I get to the newspaper a day late. At least. Most of the time it doesn’t matter, except for the sports scores it all seems “been there done that�?. But yesterday’s (9 May 2006) column by Jon Carroll of the San Francisco Chronicle got my attention right fast. Think “right�? as in “right uppercut�?. It’s Carroll’s take on the Moussaoui trial and why we haven’t seen more prosecutions of people allegedly involved in the 9/11 bombings. Because We the People, in excruciating disregard for practically our entire history as a nation up until now, have tortured these "suspects". The article is “must�? reading.

Especially the part where Carroll comments that John Bolton, our current Ambassador to the United Nations, once “said … that treaties were simply political acts and ‘not legally binding’."

They can conclude agreements, make declarations, as many as they like: I put my trust not in scraps of paper, but I put my trust in you, my [people].

Adolph Hitler

I really don’t need to say any more; Carroll’s done too good a job.

E. R. M. G.!!

- O Ceallaigh

All opinions are mine as a private citizen.

» O Ceallaigh's Felloffatruck Publications |

| 697 reads

Right on track. Or perhaps

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 9:26am.

Right on track. Or perhaps to use a sick pun- America is reich on track.

Agreed. ERMG.

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Sad ain't it?

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 9:34am.

And what are we talking about here, begging your pardon? 8th and Ocean!! Which is exactly the kind of stuff the German people were talking about in 1940, basking in the glory of their Führer ...

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You'll have to forgive me.

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 9:42am.

You'll have to forgive me. I have NO idea what 8th and Ocean is.

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8th and Ocean

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 9:47am.

It's a TV show. Glam gossip, I think. As I don't have TV, I know no more about it than what appears in the Popular Content column of this blog site. Day after day after day ....

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OC do you have something

Submitted by myspaceoryours on May 10, 2006 - 11:56am.

against 8th & Ocean? Your "day after day after day..." comment made you sound kind of bitter ;-)

You can't fight what's popular... :)

American Idol Madness / MySpace or Yours

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Ah but sometimes maybe you should

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 12:12pm.

Adolf Hitler was the most popular politician in German history, and had a lot of admirers, Charles Lindbergh among them, in the US. A lot of his popularity was based on his ability to raise the standard of living of the average German. So they could spend their evenings in the theatre or listening to the radio, induging in Aryan Idol while their leaders were building up the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe and preparing them for their lightning descent upon Europe.

It's not the existence of 8th and Ocean but its usurping of all else that bothers me. Big time ...

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You have a point...

Submitted by myspaceoryours on May 10, 2006 - 2:05pm.

I guess maybe I'm biased... being - what did Maverick call me? - "Poppy Longstockings"... anyway, so would you go as far as to say that American Idol and 8th & Ocean & MySpace & MTV are all part of someone's plan to take over the world? ;-)

American Idol Madness / MySpace or Yours

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That's why I can't balance a book on top of my head

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 3:04pm.

I'm afraid you're at the wrong carrel for conspiracy theories. Apply at Evil_Bob's, a comment or three down the page. Or RadReview's shanty a couple or three corners down.

All I can tell you is what I felt when I sat down with my nieces and nephew one Thanksgiving and we watched MTV. I came away depressed, even angry. I kept hearing the message "Pay us to be beautiful, pay us to be what you will never be, can never be. Stop trying, we've succeeded far better than you ever can and with less work than you do at CVS." [they never show you the hard parts, the dirty parts, the sick parts - Shayna is one who saw and said "no", and she doesn't say much about it]. I'm very uncomfortable with messages that appear to be saying "the only way you can be more than a worm is by following me". Indeed, a great showman and mass motivator spoke in so many words about turning a mass of worms into a great beast. He got a Ph.D. in literature, and the tricks he invented are at the centerpiece of today's Madison Avenue advertising strategies. His name was Goebbels.

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Ah. No tv. Goodness, you

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 9:56am.

Ah. No tv. Goodness, you are anachronistic. (Not a bad thing, that.)

Well, why shouldn't we write about popular content of the day. Hell, isn't that what a blog is all about? Attracting the masses, making our few pennies here and there? After all, we have nice McMansions with every luxury that can be bought, so many jobs available that we can literally choose between them, and so much food that we are literally making ourselves sick. For crying out loud, buskers even have to audition to beg for money, and the guys holding "Will work for food" signs probably make more than my family does.

It's back to the same discussion we had the other day. Can people remember their history, and how hard do they have to be hit before it sinks in that we've done this before? As much as I love learning about history, I am starting to get the idea that it has no practical application. It is fine if one individual gets a sense of deja vu related to their government, but who is willing to listen? May you be blessed with a billion readers who DO listen and get inspired to find out more for themselves.

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well, right now ...

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 10:05am.

... this piece has about 30 reads, half of which are you and me. Not exactly a world-influencing audience ... :(.

Trouble with history (and other intricate subjects, like science) is that you need history to understand it. I needed to live 50 years before I finally began to grasp what it was they were trying to teach me in high school. It's why education, before the baby boomer destruction of it in the 60s and 70s, was a lot of hard-nosed teachers and a lot of complaining kids (when they dared). It's hard hard work to try to instill "experience" in a bunch of teenagers. Especially when there are so many Henry Ford clones publicly saying History is bunk and holding the door open to the easy way. Which just happens to drive the assembly lines quite nicely, thank you.

I'm hoping that your "bed" issue is resolved favorably soon.

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The only reason why I read this...

Submitted by Maverick on May 10, 2006 - 10:12am.

Was because it it came up as similar content to 8th & Ocean.

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So much for open source software

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 10:18am.

Somebody's going to have to discipline the gremlin running the "Similar Entries" engine ...

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Or are you impugning ...

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 10:22am.

... that 8th and Ocean is all that's on television in the Guantanamo dungeons? As if they needed any more evidence in Geneva ...

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Maverick and 8th & Ocean

Submitted by myspaceoryours on May 10, 2006 - 11:54am.

So does this mean you were reading the 8th & Ocean posts because you're a fan of the show? ;-)

American Idol Madness / MySpace or Yours

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Thank you. I'm not sure the

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 10:27am.

Thank you. I'm not sure the "bed" issue is the problem. The daughter issue might be. :)

Let me rephrase my above statement, because it's not exactly accurate. What you said is true. You do need history to understand history. Ideas build upon ideas. That's the backbone of society. But the individual has little they can do to change the course of history. Even when you get a revolutionary, they spread change only because the people around them allow them to do so. Their ideas must fall on fertile ground, or they are worthless. And then, are the people changing because of the call history or charisma? I don't know. I do know I am too young to be this damn cynical. lol

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history and the individual

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 10:45am.

the individual has little they can do to change the course of history.

Actually, I gather that the pro historians yell and scream at each other about this. Hitler's a case in point. Yes, the Versailles treaty and a democratic form of government foisted upon a people used to social and political dominance under 70 years of absolute rule prepared the ground for the rise of a Superman. But if Hitler weren't around, who? What if Hitler had been an American? Or FD Roosevelt had been a German? What if Churchill had been killed by a New York taxi in 1931, rather than merely injured (true story)?

In other words, you need both the plow and the seed. The right individual at the right time can make a big difference.

We have daughters (now grown). I dig.

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Now that sounds more like

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 10:59am.

Now that sounds more like the discussions I am used to. My husband is really into alternative history. In fact, we have played a game in the past where we fill an 8 hour car ride with "What if's." One person presents a scenario, the other has to tell what they think would have happened. Of course there is no right or wrong answer, but it's a nice way to pass a few hours.

I have just sealed my geek fate with this comment. lol

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Greetings, fellow geek

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 11:11am.

I discovered alternative history for the first time a few years ago, with the What if? book of essays and Harry Turtledove's The Guns of the South (I was much less happy with his Worldwar series). Great stuff.

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Bah.

Submitted by IntricateGirl on May 10, 2006 - 11:14am.

Turtledove is exactly the one my hubby is always going on about. I refuse to read it on the grounds that he hasn't finished Freakonomics yet. lol

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Sneak a peek at GOTS when he's not looking ...

Submitted by o ceallaigh on May 10, 2006 - 11:18am.

... and try to ignore the "boy tames whore" subplot (his hackneyed romances are the worst part of Turtledove's fiction). But I forgive the author many sins for his characterization of Robert E. Lee - as an abolitionist!

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